The Doom Room: ILF Edition

[emptyparadigm]

When I had a 6x12, it was noticeably quieter than a 4x12 + 2x12. Speaker choice matters, of course, but I am sure there's a scientific explanation of how baffling and isolation of speakers affects it as well. 6x12s look cool, but my back/knees/every part of my ever-aging body is eternally thankful that we opted to run 4x12+2x12 setups.

[misterstomach]

You just can't fuck with a good old full stack. 2 4x12's is and always has been the superior choice for a guitar head. It's just the best. However, if I had to use a 6x12, I'd probably opt for less efficient client speakers in the 2x12 portion. Makes the cab quieter, but balanced. I just don't fuck with 6x12's though. Full stacks for life (or two heads with a 4x12 each).

[conky]

I know this topic has been covered a lot, and forgive me if it's redundant by now, but after trying out a handful of cabs and combinations I came to the conclusion that my amps are always louder and more articulate through a single 4x12 than a 6x12. Every time I play a 6x12, though they sound great and definitely push volume for the most part, it's never as loud as just a 4x12. It sucks because I have two 6x12 rigs and now I'm just going to use single 412's after trying different amps through different cabs. When I do the 612 rig the two speakers opposite of the 412 are always louder while the 412 side of it is barely pushing any volume. I knew this, so I tried setting up a combination of higher powered 212's and lower power 412's, and although it helped out, it still wasn't as loud as just a single 412. And this is using 100-150w amps. Anyone else with 612's experiencing this? Or is it just not enough of an issue to care about the volume and uneven power distribution issue? I'm not trying to talk shit on 612 rigs, like I said I have two of them >< it's just been bugging me the last few days.

I have the exact opposite going on with my set up. We just went on tour and decided to use our 4x12s insead of the 6x12s because one of the venues was up stairs and had a narrow stairway. Our rigs were noticeably quieter than usual. I'm not sure if its the ohms, or build of the cabs but when I had 2 Emperor 4x12s they weren't as loud as a single Atlas 6x12. The Emperor cabs have Weber 65s at 16 ohms and the Atlas has WGS 55hz Reapers at 8 ohms. I got the Atlas shipped to me empty and I wired it up to his diagram that had 2 sets of 3 speakers running together. He sent the regualr 4x12 / 2x12 pairing but it looked harder to do than the other so I went with that instead. I don't notice any volume difference between the any of the speakers. The Atlas is louder, pushes more air and projects a lot better than my Emperor. I had to sell one of my Emperors to be able to fund the Atlas, so I wasn't able to compare a full stack against the 6x12 to see which was louder.

You just can't fuck with a good old full stack. 2 4x12's is and always has been the superior choice for a guitar head. It's just the best. However, if I had to use a 6x12, I'd probably opt for less efficient client speakers in the 2x12 portion. Makes the cab quieter, but balanced. I just don't fuck with 6x12's though. Full stacks for life (or two heads with a 4x12 each).

Full stacks definitely look cooler. I've been thinking about taking my 6x12s and laying them sideways so I can still get the full stack look. They'd take up about a foot less of wall space that way too so that may work for crowded stages.

[odontophobia]

I know this topic has been covered a lot, and forgive me if it's redundant by now, but after trying out a handful of cabs and combinations I came to the conclusion that my amps are always louder and more articulate through a single 4x12 than a 6x12. Every time I play a 6x12, though they sound great and definitely push volume for the most part, it's never as loud as just a 4x12. It sucks because I have two 6x12 rigs and now I'm just going to use single 412's after trying different amps through different cabs. When I do the 612 rig the two speakers opposite of the 412 are always louder while the 412 side of it is barely pushing any volume. I knew this, so I tried setting up a combination of higher powered 212's and lower power 412's, and although it helped out, it still wasn't as loud as just a single 412. And this is using 100-150w amps. Anyone else with 612's experiencing this? Or is it just not enough of an issue to care about the volume and uneven power distribution issue? I'm not trying to talk shit on 612 rigs, like I said I have two of them >< it's just been bugging me the last few days.

I have the exact opposite going on with my set up. We just went on tour and decided to use our 4x12s insead of the 6x12s because one of the venues was up stairs and had a narrow stairway. Our rigs were noticeably quieter than usual. I'm not sure if its the ohms, or build of the cabs but when I had 2 Emperor 4x12s they weren't as loud as a single Atlas 6x12. The Emperor cabs have Weber 65s at 16 ohms and the Atlas has WGS 55hz Reapers at 8 ohms. I got the Atlas shipped to me empty and I wired it up to his diagram that had 2 sets of 3 speakers running together. He sent the regualr 4x12 / 2x12 pairing but it looked harder to do than the other so I went with that instead. I don't notice any volume difference between the any of the speakers. The Atlas is louder, pushes more air and projects a lot better than my Emperor. I had to sell one of my Emperors to be able to fund the Atlas, so I wasn't able to compare a full stack against the 6x12 to see which was louder.

You just can't fuck with a good old full stack. 2 4x12's is and always has been the superior choice for a guitar head. It's just the best. However, if I had to use a 6x12, I'd probably opt for less efficient client speakers in the 2x12 portion. Makes the cab quieter, but balanced. I just don't fuck with 6x12's though. Full stacks for life (or two heads with a 4x12 each).

Full stacks definitely look cooler. I've been thinking about taking my 6x12s and laying them sideways so I can still get the full stack look. They'd take up about a foot less of wall space that way too so that may work for crowded stages.

Lying those 6x12s out on their sides would certainly look like a fucking wall of amps.

I remember playing this show in this tiny upstairs apartment space that had this little alcove in front of the window and it was the only space my old band could fit its gear. One guitarist played out of two 4x10s then we had another guitarist with a 4x12, a 1x18 for synthesizers and then 8x10 for bass. We see all the amps in that little alcove, 8x10 flat with guitar cabs on top of it. It looked like the coolest wall of amps I had ever had the privilege to play in front of, for that moment in time at least.

[chillerthanmost]

Thanks for the replies/discussion, guys. Like I said, maybe it's just my choice of speakers and/or wiring that are making my 4x12 + 2x12 rigs not as efficient as just the single 4x12.

Conky, 2 sets of 3 speakers sounds more efficient as far as wiring. How are they wired. This seems like power would be distributed evenly which should make it louder than a single 412. What's the impedance of each speaker? I think this is also how I've seen some EA cabs wired.

[conky]

Thanks for the replies/discussion, guys. Like I said, maybe it's just my choice of speakers and/or wiring that are making my 4x12 + 2x12 rigs not as efficient as just the single 4x12.

Conky, 2 sets of 3 speakers sounds more efficient as far as wiring. How are they wired. This seems like power would be distributed evenly which should make it louder than a single 412. What's the impedance of each speaker? I think this is also how I've seen some EA cabs wired.

I'll have to dig around and find the wiring diagram that Petras drew up and sent to me. It has the 4 16 ohm speakers on the top and bottom and then the 2 8 ohms in the middle. It ended up being wired up for an 8 ohm load overall.

[chillerthanmost]

Ah, I see. Thanks, Conky.That's different than what I was imagining in my head. Unless somehow it's not wired as the four 16's to 16 and the two 8's to 16, then it's the same wiring I have with how my rig is wired. Except for the location of speakers.

I've been thinking, perhaps I also like the sound and feel of less speakers being pushed and driven harder. I perceive this as higher volume with more impact. I realize this when I think of bands that I've seen with impressive volumes out of just a 4x12, I think "holy shit, that's loud for a 4x12" but when I see a band with a 6x12 or a full stack, i simply think "obviously they're loud, they have tons of speakers." So, idk, maybe it's just my own subjective opinion. I still want to play a 6x12 that is said to be louder than a 4x12, and compare it with my 4x12 using one of my amps. I should add that a lot of those WGS speakers are 98db while the eminence speakers I play are 101db. Fuck, I don't know anymore. I guess it doesn't really matter because I'm broke as fuck and can't really by an actual 612 right now even if I wanted one. Stressing over shit that doesn't matter, fuck my life.

[conky]

Ah, I see. Thanks, Conky.That's different than what I was imagining in my head. Unless somehow it's not wired as the four 16's to 16 and the two 8's to 16, then it's the same wiring I have with how my rig is wired. Except for the location of speakers.

I've been thinking, perhaps I also like the sound and feel of less speakers being pushed and driven harder. I perceive this as higher volume with more impact. I realize this when I think of bands that I've seen with impressive volumes out of just a 4x12, I think "holy shit, that's loud for a 4x12" but when I see a band with a 6x12 or a full stack, i simply think "obviously they're loud, they have tons of speakers." So, idk, maybe it's just my own subjective opinion. I still want to play a 6x12 that is said to be louder than a 4x12, and compare it with my 4x12 using one of my amps. I should add that a lot of those WGS speakers are 98db while the eminence speakers I play are 101db. Fuck, I don't know anymore. I guess it doesn't really matter because I'm broke as fuck and can't really by an actual 612 right now even if I wanted one. Stressing over shit that doesn't matter, fuck my life.

Maybe the db rating on the speakers are what is different for me too, I dunno. Or the wattage... my Emperor is 260 watts and the 6x12 is only 180. I do have my 5150 cab that I could run with my Emperor and see how they do against the 6x12. Next practice I'll have to try it out. I found the diagram that Petras sent.

[ShaolinLambKiller]

I run my 612 with a 412 on one head. I run my 415 with a 212 currently. and then I bring another 4 cabs. I've never played a show with only a 412 aside from when I first started playing and all I had was a half stack. I've never played a show with only a 612. at the smallest I've done is either a 412 and 215 or a 612 and 415.

Moar is moar in my cases.

my 612 is 500w, 415 is 600w. my 412s and 212 115's are around 300w to 600w.

nice diagram....conky

[van_muddlestein]

When I had a 6x12 cab, it sounded great and loved it, but ultimately I'm pretty confident it wasn't as loud as a single 4x12. That being said, I really miss having a 6x12.

[neonblack]

I have simpler dreams. 2x12 Dominion cab with a couple Weber Tonecvlt speakers for my YBA-3.

Will hopefully be a reality early next year.

[chillerthanmost]

I think speaker sensitivity plays a big roll. For instance, like i mentioned, my 412 is filled with 101db speakers. So if you do some math, if that increases by 3db given every equal amount added, that's a total of 107db cab. In theory. If you have a 612 with 98db speakers, that's also a 107db cab. So, that's the same volume. You gain surface area, however, you lose some sensitivity due to the uneven power distribution. So, given this theory with this comparison, the 412 will be louder, even if you can hear the 612 from a couple of feet off to the sides in comparison (due to more speaker surface area).

So, what I should do, if I want a 612, is make sure all the speakers are high decibel speakers, and since the two 8 ohm speakers are getting more power than the four 16 ohm speakers, the two 8's should be higher wattage, so they don't get pushed as hard with the more power going to them, and the 4x12 should be lower wattage, so they get pushed harder than the 212.

Seems fucking simple, that's the deal I have going on with my EV 212 and v30 412. But somehow using the 4x12 alone made my Model T sound louder. But that can go back to my perception of louder by pushing less amount of speakers harder than more speakers not being pushed hard.

These three paragraphs sum up exactly why lately I've said "fuck you" you to 612's. I'm just sticking to half stacks or full stacks from now on. Two amps, each to their own 4x12, that makes me happy and it's easy. And to my ears it's louder given my specific cabs/speakers/amps currently.

[Kacey Y]

Feel free to bring that Laney over and try it through my Atlas 6x12 anytime Tony.

[chillerthanmost]

Feel free to bring that Laney over and try it through my Atlas 6x12 anytime Tony.

That would be perfect! And I can take my 412 and compare what speakers are in your atlas again?

[Kacey Y]

Feel free to bring that Laney over and try it through my Atlas 6x12 anytime Tony.

That would be perfect! And I can take my 412 and compare what speakers are in your atlas again?

4 WGS ET65's and a 2 ET90's. I haven't decided if I like them or not yet honestly, I haven't had a lot of chances to play with it so far. They definitely don't sound bad, but I might end up liking something else better, who knows. I'm planning on changing up my home recording rig soon and trying out a couple new speakers.