856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

[D.o.S.]

Wait this is a looper?

I mean I'm sort of kidding but it's kind of an imposing bit of kit.

[UglyCasanova]

Yes.

And no.

Hope that helps.

[baremountain]

I'm not sure if I'm terrible at timing or if it's a quirk of the 856 but I can't seem to time a loop perfectly on beat. I don't have an issue doing it with my ditto so just wondering if anyone else is having trouble with this.

Yeah, this is my only problem with the design. It's toe-up to begin/end recording rather than toe-down. If you've got an Organelle, I'm working on a patch that will let you plug in an external footswitch and tap it like a normal looper though.

[Jwar]

I'm so going to make a bad offer on the listed ebay one.

[JonnyAngle]

I'm not sure if I'm terrible at timing or if it's a quirk of the 856 but I can't seem to time a loop perfectly on beat. I don't have an issue doing it with my ditto so just wondering if anyone else is having trouble with this.

Yeah, this is my only problem with the design. It's toe-up to begin/end recording rather than toe-down. If you've got an Organelle, I'm working on a patch that will let you plug in an external footswitch and tap it like a normal looper though.

interesting on the tow up. I always struggle with the toe down and being a few ms off. Can you hold the switch down and then release when it's time to start/stop the loop?

[baremountain]

Yeah, that's actually the only good way I've found to do it

[D.o.S.]

Yes.

And no.

Hope that helps.

Well from what I gather this is basically the logical endpoint to a lot of the ideas that Mode 3 of the Ct5 pointed at -- although it's been a while since I owned the Ct5 and it was the v1 so maybe that's not even true anymore -- right?

Mode 3 being the mode that was way the fuck over my head in the first place, of course.

[UglyCasanova]

Yes, you're onto something! You've got the same 'three versions of the same loop' as you do in mode 3 of the CT5 (only you can do a buttload more mangling to each loop and the entirety of the loops), but you can also apply the pattern you've made to non-recorded/looped playing, like mode 1 on the CT5.

It honestly seems more complex than it really is. The manual is confusing as hell, but I guess it comes with the territory when you need to use the name of each knob/toggle every time you try to explain something (such as "Put the N1/BAR/N2/N3 switch in the middle position. You are now controlling the second note set. Turn the LEN knob to about half, the TMPO/REP knob to about half. Set the FREE/QUANT/SKIP to the middle position and turn the Δ knob to the middle. Now turn up the GAIN knob to maximum"). If you sit down and play with it, doing one mode at a time, you've got it down in a few hours.

[Teej212]

i remember reading something about time stretching, is this possible with the 856 scott? cant seem to figure it out

[Strange Tales]

Tried going in blind with this thing yesterday.

...Gonna go ahead and print out the manual today.

[UglyCasanova]

i remember reading something about time stretching, is this possible with the 856 scott? cant seem to figure it out

On the tempo/rep knob:

"When N1/BAR is selected, the knob's function changes depending on the position of FREE/A=B/AREC. When FREE/R=B/AREC is in FREE mode, the knob controls the tempo so that in fully counter-clockwise position, the there are 40 loops per minute (40 playings of N1) and in fully clockwise position, there are 240 loops per minute.

In R=B mode the knob slightly nudges the tempo: turning clockwise makes it slightly faster and counter-clockwise slightly slower.

In AREC mode it behaves the same as in R=B mode."

[Teej212]

That's not time stretching dog

[UglyCasanova]

Don't look at me. I didn't make the pedal. In R=B you are stretching or compressing the loop though without changing the pitch (at least as far as my ears can tell). Seems like time stretching to me. It's not extreme, but rather a tool to sync your loop to a beat or something else.

[baremountain]

i remember reading something about time stretching, is this possible with the 856 scott? cant seem to figure it out

Yeah I couldn't figure that out either - there's only down an octave capabilities (1/2 speed) as far as I can tell. Changing the tempo doesn't change the playback speed of the loop, it only changes the length of time before the loop replays (ie slowing down a loop's tempo will just introduce a gap at the end, speeding it up will make the next iteration begin before the first one stops playing). I can't figure out the time-stretching thing either FWIW.

Tried going in blind with this thing yesterday.

...Gonna go ahead and print out the manual today.

I think you'll find the manual to be very helpful haha. The most confusing thing for the going-in-blind approach is that your knob turns actually don't effect the sound until the next time the loop cycles (when the beat light illuminates). I read the manual 3 times, once with the pedal in front of me, then used it for reference a few times, but I feel like I can operate it without the manual now and do things at least somewhat deliberately. Like UC said, it's much more intimidating to write out because pretty much every knob has 2-3 functions, determined by the position of the switches.
Comparing it to the Ct5 tho seems kinda pointless because there are features it shares with each of the modes. You could theoretically make it act like a Ct5 would in mode 1 or 3, but that's ignoring half of the features of the 856 to do something most of us already have a dedicated piece of hardware for (the Ct5 itself). This thing is its own box of magic that kind of makes its own game rather than adhering to rules that are already in place.

[UglyCasanova]

I need to go home and play some loops so I can see if I can replicate this gap/overlap you speak of.