After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[comesect2.0]

Long as Americans are still stocking Tang in their pantries so shall the 7th seal remain unbroken.

[Chankgeez]

Yeah, I think that's the real reason I started this thread. Hoping someone'd eventually post an Orange Julius recipe.

It needed something positive, I think.

Long as Americans are still stocking Tang in their pantries so shall the 7th seal remain unbroken.

Are you invoking the name of the ancient astronauts?

[Mudfuzz]

That's an assumption that doesn't follow from anything I said.

Just like you actually don't seem to get what I said?

I've been paying attention vocally for about as long as is reasonable for someone of my age. The internet has been well and thoroughly littered with my sociopolitical ramblings over the last twenty years, thank you very much. The fact that these issues are not new is not a reason to avoid anger, nor does it preclude level-headed anger.

We are on the same page on this but my point is...

And holding the timing of people's political awakening against them might as well be the definition of counterproductive.

The point I was making is NOT that people shouldn't uses their outrage in a positive way and to get involved but that you cannot count on it for sustaining a movement beyond the angry stage. There has to be hope and planing and the want for real change even if it might hurt in the short run. a lot of people don't hold on to level-headed anger, they move on, give up become bitter or convince themselves in the opposite direction or feel that a small victory is good enough...

Trump won because of outrage and anger and the FAILINGS of putting up with ideas and ideals that never should have.

Anger of his followers that have been allowed to be mislead by propaganda to support a class they will never be a part of.

Outrage of many of us that are progressive and turned away and didn't vote or even voted for Trump as their ultimate protest instead of actually paying attention to the fucking point in the first place...

Failings of not calling out racists, sexists, homophobes, nazis, polluters, pro violence zealots etc etc as being anti american instead of "well they are entitled to their opinion.." in the public forum so that people still feel comfortable and justified and unfettered spreading hate.

I'm not trying to attack you here.

I'm just responding to the growing popularity of demonizing "outrage culture" as a vehicle for undermining progressive thought and policy. Just like "political correctness" before it, this is a carefully-crafted right-wing propaganda campaign that's starting to dig its claws into left-leaning moderates, and it's dangerous.

But see this is what I see as the problem. Until people can start planning and moving forward with a long term goal in mind they will be victims of this. They are portrayed as pouty children that fuss when they don't get what they want. But you the fact is. "this is a carefully-crafted right-wing propaganda campaign" works as long as it's a protest to a thing instead of changing a thing WHICH SADLY TAKES TIME.

What if all this nice outrage that helped in this midterm fades away because...

Grievances are not legitimate unless you have had full awareness of the issue at hand since its origin? Being opposed to deleterious policy is less legitimate than supporting favorable policy? Am I understanding you correctly?

[/quote]

When not enough is gotten done in the way that you wanted when you wanted so you pout like a child and don't vote.. that never happens does it? That's not how you get years where more people vote for american idol than in a american election..

Unless we rip the whole government down we are stuck with what we have. If you want it to change you have to keep at it, you can't go hot and cold, on and off. Angry now but apathetic tomorrow.

[Benn Roe]

Just butting in here re : "I'm just responding to the growing popularity of demonizing "outrage culture" as a vehicle for undermining progressive thought and policy ..." You don't think outrage culture is real? I have also been on the internet for 20 years, generally not debating politics, but on different forums. I remember a certain one I was a member of for a long time, administered by decidely liberal and progressive-minded people from SF and Portland no less. More right-leaning people came in from time to time, and usually if they were interested in staying interesting debates ensued and nobody was mortally offended. I can't help but think that nowadays, here, those guys would be seen as just trolls and banned. Also I can't see something like the Pussy Melter controversy happening back then; granted there was no twitter. But look how that turned out, people were clamoring to buy the pedal when it came out just to own the object of the outrage.

It's a complicated issue. Yes, I believe there are people who sometimes draw ludicrous conclusions from sound premises. What I don't believe is 1) that this is a change from any point in history; 2) that this applies only to progressives; or 3) that terms like "outrage culture" serve anyone but the far right. When I get drawn into sociopolitical debates these days the terms "virtue signaling" and "outrage culture" are almost always tossed in my direction. 15 or 20 years ago I was having virtually the same arguments, but back then the buzzword was always "PC". These terms are all the same. They undermine progressive ideas by uniting people from a range of political viewpoints behind reductive fringe mischaracterizations. They poison the lexicon, harnessing guilt to shift everyone to the right.

The left hasn't really moved the needle much in that period of time either. What's changed is that as the far-right and far-left have continued to up the ante, moderates have invariably been pulled toward one or the other. If the left seems louder it's because it's a lot bigger than it used to be. The larger overall numbers also mean that there are likely to be more hardliners, which means people are more likely to be exposed to them (especially with the prevalence of social media). Every movement has hardliners, though, and reducing a movement to its stupidest contingent is disingenuous. The fact that you're even bringing up the Pussy Melter speaks to that. The whole objection to that TonePrint was very reasonable and handled really rationally by people who were largely met with cries of "outrage culture" as a way to reduce them to caricature and make them seem hysterical. I've had lots of versions of the Pussy Melter argument over many, many years (arguing about Dude Fest and Slut Fest on vivalavinyl comes to mind). It's not a new concept that women can be disenfranchised by careless or malicious naming conventions.

[Benn Roe]

lots of stuff

It sounds like we agree on more than we disagree on. I definitely concede that the way anger is channeled is important, and that a lot of people (of all walks of life) do a lot of harm to their own ideas by expending energy in dubious and counterproductive ways. The PETA effect is real, even if the terminology that often explains it is reductive and misleading.

[friendship]

Thanks for replying Mudfuzz, I understand what you're saying better now. I also agree more than I disagree.

[Bassist_Diver]

What was it I said about the devil you know vs the one you don't?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/us/p ... erior.html

WASHINGTON — The acting attorney general, Matthew G. Whitaker, once espoused the view that the courts “are supposed to be the inferior branch” and criticized the Supreme Court’s power to review legislative and executive acts and declare them unconstitutional, the lifeblood of its existence as a coequal branch of government.

In a Q. and A. when he sought the Republican nomination for senator in Iowa in 2014, Mr. Whitaker indicated that he shared the belief among some conservatives that the federal judiciary has too much power over public policy. He criticized many of the Supreme Court’s rulings, beginning with a foundational one: Marbury v. Madison, which established its power of judicial review in 1803.

“There are so many” bad rulings, Mr. Whitaker said. “I would start with the idea of Marbury v. Madison. That’s probably a good place to start and the way it’s looked at the Supreme Court as the final arbiter of constitutional issues.”

The interview was among evidence that shed new light on Mr. Whitaker’s views, including disparagement of the Russia investigation, which he now oversees, and an expansive view of presidential power. Congressional aides, journalists and other observers scoured his record after Mr. Trump fired Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Wednesday and replaced him with Mr. Whitaker, instantly raising questions about whether the president wanted a loyalist in charge at the Justice Department with the power to end the Russia investigation.

Groups throughout the nation marched on Thursday to support the inquiry of Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, and to protest Mr. Whitaker’s appointment. Thousands demonstrated in dozens of cities, including in Washington, Philadelphia, Omaha and Salt Lake City.

In New York, about 4,000 people marched from Times Square to Union Square, the police said. Protesters held signs and chanted “Trump is not above the law.” On Twitter, #ProtectMueller was trending.

Though Democrats called on Mr. Whitaker to recuse himself from overseeing the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether any of Mr. Trump’s associates conspired, the Justice Department has said he will supervise Mr. Mueller. Past statements suggest that Mr. Whitaker has already made up his mind that the investigation will fail to show that Mr. Trump or his advisers aided Russia’s disruption.

“The truth is there was no collusion with the Russians and the Trump campaign,” Mr. Whitaker said in an interview on “The Wilkow Majority,” a conservative political talk radio show, in summer 2017. His remarks were reported earlier by The Daily Beast.

“There was interference by the Russians into the election, but that is not collusion with the campaign,” he added, views that dovetailed with Mr. Trump’s longstanding complaints about the investigation. “That’s where the left seems to be just combining those two issues.”

He also argued last year that the president could not have obstructed justice by asking the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to end an investigation into his first national security adviser, a broad notion of executive power that Mr. Trump’s lawyers have also embraced. Mr. Whitaker dismissed the outcry over Mr. Trump’s request as overkill during a radio interview in June 2017 on the conservative “David Webb Show.”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/politics ... index.html

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is considering former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi to replace fired Attorney General Jeff Sessions, sources familiar with the matter said.

Trump fired Sessions on Wednesday without immediately naming a replacement, instead installing Sessions' chief of staff Matthew Whitaker as acting attorney general. Both Christie and Bondi are longtime political allies of the President's and were initially considered contenders for the Justice Department perch during the transition.

Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta also is under consideration, according to a senior Senate Republican aide and a source familiar with the process.

Given Trump's long-standing frustrations with Sessions, other potential contenders have cropped up in Trump-friendly circles in recent months, including Whitaker, Solicitor General Noel Francisco, Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, former Judge John Michael Luttig, Judge Edith Jones, former Judge Janice Rogers Brown, retiring Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-South Carolina, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina.

If nominated, Christie, a former US attorney, could face similar calls to the ones Sessions faced to recuse himself from special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation given his role as a prominent 2016 campaign surrogate for Trump. But unlike Sessions, there is no indication he had contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign or transition.

Ms. Diver is a Florida native and saw Bondi in action. She said "[Bondi] is worse than Jeff Sessions in that she hates everything he does, has actually done things Sessions only talked about, and is way more charismatic and persuasive than Sessions. Plus she looks like someone Donnie Boy would fuck, so she'll get whatever she wants."

[frodog]

Every movement has hardliners, though, and reducing a movement to its stupidest contingent is disingenuous. The fact that you're even bringing up the Pussy Melter speaks to that. The whole objection to that TonePrint was very reasonable and handled really rationally by people who were largely met with cries of "outrage culture" as a way to reduce them to caricature and make them seem hysterical. I've had lots of versions of the Pussy Melter argument over many, many years (arguing about Dude Fest and Slut Fest on vivalavinyl comes to mind). It's not a new concept that women can be disenfranchised by careless or malicious naming conventions.

Omitting the first part, I do basically agree with you there. Not a fan of trying to reduce someone's argument to parroting an ideology, and the term "outrage culture" does sort of play into that. Outside of personally knowing how someone sources their facts/who they hang out with/etc. it's often a stretch to say they're just representing "...-culture", but on twitter it seems more black and white/polarized.

Which brings me to the last part, which I partly disagree with. I absolutely do not think the PM was a funny product, but nor do I think the objections to it were very reasonable and handled really rationally. Not that the replies were much better. But on the whole that was a silly argument all around I think, which did absolutely nothing to advance anyone's cause except the band, who cashed in. Ted Leo said that TC should "hire women!", as if forcing a company to do that would solve anything. I'm sure no guitar pedal company would reject the idea of anybody working there who applied and had the qualifications. It's these kinds of arguments that I find counterproductive, when based on a joke, people will jump on demonizing a whole industry.

[Sonaboy]

Pwesident TumTum is about to go KABLOOEY on twitter, I think...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... _lead_pos1

[gnomethrone]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillySnark/ ... 1282970625

NSFW: show

it's a joke

[dubkitty]

GRITTY 2020!

[Chankgeez]

I'M WITH GRITTY!!!

[calfzilla]

Gritty kitty litter, even your dog will love it.

[dubkitty]

gritty_trump.jpg (62.74 KiB) Viewed 2394 times

.

[Achtane]

Wait, does that mean Trump is the son of Gritty?!