After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[Faldoe]

I'm using that as an example because currently the tone from the raising voices on the Left that are influencing the Dem party are framing it that if you support immigration law and border security you're a racist. And again, a perfect dichotomy that won't help bring people to support Democrats in 2020 if they keep that up. Just like calling Trump supporters "deplorables."

Wait, wait, wait. It was a moderate establishment Democrat that called Trump supporters "deplorables". You're not really talking about the left, are you? You're just worried about aggressive, confrontational candidates alienating people with hyperbole? If so, I don't wholly disagree with you, but that's not really an issue with the presidential candidates who are furthest to the left, so what's the problem? It's more of an issue with Buttigieg than Warren, and he's about as boring and whitebread as moderates come. There are some progressives in congress who definitely have a tendency to phrase things more aggressively than I think is necessary or helpful. The things they believe and say are not wrong, but obviously drawing hard lines doesn't do anything to win over anyone who doesn't already agree with them, which seems like a pretty stupid strategy for accomplishing much, even if it makes for good soundbytes. Warren and Sanders aren't anything like that, though. Bernie says everything angrily, but everything he says is pretty measured. It's possible to talk about the problems with immigration law and border security, which are indeed finely entangled with racism, without making accusations against people who may not have all the facts or may not have put much thought into the issue.

I am talking about the Left but I am also using the example of Clinton as she put out there the notions that have been brewing for a long time about two Americas and the fly over country/knuckle draggers being one side of it, and how that was a means to divide even further. That may not been her intention in using that term.

I think Sanders has many reasonable positions and critiques. I think I mentioned before him rightly calling Republicans out on their scare tactics of socialism or saying the Left is about government handouts all the while being ok with cooperate welfare via subsides.

I think he is right to go after the pharmaceutical companies.

I'm concerned he will cave to the ever growing narrative of the social justice left that the USA is a inherently flawed country (they throw the baby out with the bathwater and don't realize their privilege. Especially the activist studies at universities) and won't stand up to people from the twitter sphere if they offer completely incoherent and unproductive legislative or policy plans.

Americans are both stupid but at the same time not. Most people don't agree with the shit from the Left.

Though Sanders could be pandering to them and them tell them to fuck off once he is elected which would be great and gives me hope thinking about it.

[Faldoe]

I'm using that as an example because currently the tone from the raising voices on the Left that are influencing the Dem party are framing it that if you support immigration law and border security you're a racist. And again, a perfect dichotomy that won't help bring people to support Democrats in 2020 if they keep that up. Just like calling Trump supporters "deplorables."

Wait, wait, wait. It was a moderate establishment Democrat that called Trump supporters "deplorables". You're not really talking about the left, are you? You're just worried about aggressive, confrontational candidates alienating people with hyperbole? If so, I don't wholly disagree with you, but that's not really an issue with the presidential candidates who are furthest to the left, so what's the problem? It's more of an issue with Buttigieg than Warren, and he's about as boring and whitebread as moderates come. There are some progressives in congress who definitely have a tendency to phrase things more aggressively than I think is necessary or helpful. The things they believe and say are not wrong, but obviously drawing hard lines doesn't do anything to win over anyone who doesn't already agree with them, which seems like a pretty stupid strategy for accomplishing much, even if it makes for good soundbytes. Warren and Sanders aren't anything like that, though. Bernie says everything angrily, but everything he says is pretty measured. It's possible to talk about the problems with immigration law and border security, which are indeed finely entangled with racism, without making accusations against people who may not have all the facts or may not have put much thought into the issue.

I am talking about the Left but I am also using the example of Clinton as she put out there the notions that have been brewing for a long time about two Americas and the fly over country/knuckle draggers being one side of it, and how that was a means to divide even further. That may not been her intention in using that term.

I think Sanders has many reasonable positions and critiques. I think I mentioned before him rightly calling Republicans out on their scare tactics of socialism or saying the Left is about government handouts all the while being ok with cooperate welfare via subsides.

I think he is right to go after the pharmaceutical companies.

I'm concerned he will cave to the ever growing narrative of the social justice left that the USA is a inherently flawed country (they throw the baby out with the bathwater and don't realize their privilege. Especially the activist studies at universities) and won't stand up to people from the twitter sphere if they offer completely incoherent and unproductive legislative or policy plans.

Americans are both stupid but at the same time not. Most people don't agree with the shit from the Left.

Though Sanders could be pandering to them and them tell them to fuck off once he is elected which would be great and gives me hope thinking about it.

Give examples of the GOP being openly racist? I do not doubt there are republicans that appeal to racism, i.e. Steve King, but is to be for enforcing the border racist in and of itself?

The Mexican people have a beautifully poetic phrase for posts like this:

"mucho retardo"

John, what a lovely critique and rebuttal of my comment!

[John]

I'm concerned he will cave to the ever growing narrative of the social justice left that the USA is a inherently flawed country (they throw the baby out with the bathwater and don't realize their privilege. Especially the activist studies at universities)

A whole hell of a lot of regular apolitical working class Black, Hispanic, and American Indian people would tell you how wrong you are, except that most don't hang out on a bespoke musical toy box forum. This country is BUILT on its flaws.

[Chankgeez]

Has everybody read A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn yet?

Or even Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown?

It's good to get different perspectives.

[jirodreamsofdank]

Especially the activist studies at universities)

[Faldoe]

I'm concerned he will cave to the ever growing narrative of the social justice left that the USA is a inherently flawed country (they throw the baby out with the bathwater and don't realize their privilege. Especially the activist studies at universities)

A whole hell of a lot of regular apolitical working class Black, Hispanic, and American Indian people would tell you how wrong you are, except that most don't hang out on a bespoke musical toy box forum. This country is BUILT on its flaws.

Its funny cause I doubt that as I'm surprised with the people I talk to - black and brown in particular - that don't fall for that shit. Albeit I don't talk with many American Indians. I have a BA in American Indian Studies - which doesn't mean anything as a means of me being qualified to speak for anything on their behalf. That isn't why I referenced it. I reference it to say I've read the history and well aware of the sins this country has committed, and still on going especially in particular to AI tribes, but it isn't fair nor logical to see the country as inherently flawed and unable to possibly live out it's founding creeds (to paraphrase MLK).

People's identities are complex - you have AI people that are Christian and practice their tribes/ancestor's beliefs. And of course they only know of Christianity because of colonialism but that has shaped their identity and part of who they are today. I don't mean to say this somehow excuses colonialism or the policies that oppressed people but there is this fallacy of pureism afoot that tries to essentialize people by their race, gender, sexual orientation. A new hierarchy and it is actually dehumanizing because it simplifies identity. It binds people.

For all the talk of binaries - which is worth talking about - there are new perpetuations of binaries.

I've talked with black people that think BLM is bullshit, opportunistic. Check youtube for videos of black people criticizing BLM. You never hear about that.

It's amusing to watch the woke white folks talk down to black people that don't support BLM. The nerve they have. Or hearing black cops called uncle Toms or house nword by other black people. Heard white folks say the former but obviously won't say the latter. It is a joke.

Has everybody read A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn yet?

Or even Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown?

It's good to get different perspectives.

Yes, read People's history. Been awhile but something interesting Zinn talked about was having different groups of people feuding with each other based on differences as a means of control. Certainly sounds like today.

[John]

Check youtube for videos of black people criticizing BLM. You never hear about that.

Uh yeah we've heard plenty about Diamond & Silk actually

[Faldoe]

Check youtube for videos of black people criticizing BLM. You never hear about that.

Uh yeah we've heard plenty about Diamond & Silk actually

haha, right. Cause they are the only ones. Well done

[John]

Check youtube for videos of black people criticizing BLM. You never hear about that.

Uh yeah we've heard plenty about Diamond & Silk actually

haha, right. Cause they are the only ones. Well done

Your whole argument is "hey there are black Republicans and Jewish Nazis, ergo I am very smart"

[Faldoe]

Check youtube for videos of black people criticizing BLM. You never hear about that.

Uh yeah we've heard plenty about Diamond & Silk actually

haha, right. Cause they are the only ones. Well done

Your whole argument is "hey there are black Republicans and Jewish Nazis, ergo I am very smart"

Straw man much?

Jewish Nazis? Didn't say that. There are black Republicans though I wasn't referencing them but black people in general that don't support BLM. You don't have to be a black republican to be against BLM. Though the use of the Uncle Tom smear is often applied to black Republicans so I can see how you could think that is what I was referring to.

But you haven't addressed anything I said specifically and pointed out that it was wrong and if so how, but rather replay with Straw mans or other interpretations what you think I mean. Had you asked "Faldoe, do you mean to say X" that would be one thing.

I'm not very smart at all. Trying to be honest about what I see and not be swayed by ideological candy which is what is driving the social stances today.

[jrfox92]

This new Half-Life's lookin' super realistic, man.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX42eyLjkSA[/youtube]

[TheTransient]

This new Half-Life's lookin' super realistic, man.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX42eyLjkSA[/youtube]

Fingers crossed someone makes and edit of that with the Half-Life sound effects. That would be perfect.

[chromandre]

I'm not very smart at all.

[frodog]

Well, Faldoe is the only one I see on this page trying to have a reasonable conversation, so...

[John]

I'm sure Steve Bannon has very reasonable conversations too