The what ever thread...

[Jeff-7]

We are MEN

[phantasmagorovich]

Everything is more fun than having children.

You are not wrong in the least for wanting moog more than children. At least you know what you like and enjoy.

If you want children so be it as well. That's not for everyone and it's sort of absurd that parents assume everyone else is just as enthusiastic about populating the world.

Dude, you're saying children are not fun, I'm saying children are fun. Do me the favor of not putting me in the same bucket as the idiot parents you're probably referring to.

To explain what I mean, comparing having children to owning an instrument just doesn't ring true. If you want a comparison, maybe try imagining this: discovering music and starting to learn an instrument at the same time. It's terrifying, frustrating, gratifying and sometimes downright fun. Thing is, if you don't have children you don't know what you're talking about. It's like talking to my boss about making music. Some basic knowledge is just missing.

I don't have to have children to understand the idea. That's flawed logic. You are telling me not to put you in the same bucket but you are actually using their exact arguement.
Also the assumption I've never been around or cared for children in my life is a large one to assume as well.

Since we've started this argument after I said children are fun I can only assume your experience with children is either very limited or flawed with bias just like the whole argument. Let's go at this methodically:

- you don't want children and have reasons for it.
-> you voice this towards people that have children they tell you you don't understand because having children is a life-changing experience that can't be transported by mere words. You have to experience it. Therefore your reasons seem moot from their perspective.
-> you agree to disagree and continue with your respective lives, opinions unchanged.
-> the overwhelming majority of people who have children tell you the same thing when you talk to them.
-> instead of accepting this for what it is, people have made an experience and tell you it is something you can only fully grasp after experiencing it, you say it's illogical to make this claim.
(Where is the logic in that?)
-> it's completely fine to not experience this or that but saying you know what it's like when everybody that does know says you don't is prepubescent.

I don't feel a part of the mum&dad league because I know your life might just as well be fulfilled without this experience. But I know for a fact it changes your life a bunch, and it's not something that can be conveyed without the experience. I can't explain it because it goes beyond words, not because it's bullshit propaganda that I spit in order to make anyone succumb to anything.

[Jeff-7]

I don't have kids, want kids, or particularly like kids, but I don't claim to have insight into what having kids does to your life. If people want kids and find the experience rewarding and enjoyable, they should do it. Without going through pregnancy, delivery, care and the attachment to the child who has your genes that is your responsibility 24/7/365 you don't really have a view of the life of a parent. You have the cliffnotes experience of an outsider looking in. That's not to say there aren't tons of people who shouldn't have kids, I sure as hell wouldn't make a good parent.

[ShaolinLambKiller]

There was no argument at all. All I said was exactly what you said before I said no you said yes. You said not to include you with those parents, I said I do because you are presenting yourself exactly as that type of person. You opened up again thinking I want to debate the merit of kids with no prior knowledge of my life or past. I'm not debating that. I honestly don't care. You can assume my experience, and I'm not going to outline my entire outline with my past of raising children and past relationships to you. That's also a trait of the people I had described earlier you claimed that you are not part of and don't want to associate with.

I clearly said that I don't mind people who want and desire children nor those who don't. But in the long haul it shouldn't be a natural thing for the person who doesn't to somehow feel guilty due to other's opinions. Now if they feel guilty because of their own internal strife that's on them because of their own desires that are pulling. Someone should be happy and fullfilled with whatever choice they make. That's simply it.



Is that good enough to you? Or should have I presented with an outline of my history of relationships/children rearing before stating anything that you feel is soully your knowledge. I would prefer to drop it cause you aren't going to change my mind on how I picture you which is just like the group of parents you somehow don't feel a part of.

[Ugly Nora]

Kids are the future, IMO.

[ShaolinLambKiller]

That should go without saying. That was never my side of anything....

[phantasmagorovich]

OK, whatever man, peace.

(And the future goes without saying indeed.)

[Ugly Nora]

That should go without saying. That was never my side of anything....

Just posting some out of context, misquoted, Sopranos dialogue. Carry on.

[ShaolinLambKiller]

hahaha oh okay. Haven't watched that show.

[wafl]

[ShaunNecro]

[gunslinger_burrito]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HRdYCLZMqs[/youtube]

[foomanfat]

Just sold a guitar through craigslist to a guy I used to hang out with as a kid. Hadn't seen him in probably fifteen years. Random.

[Blackened Soul]

She is so awesome!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSZeOWBF8M[/youtube]

[leaves turn]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchdP9Kdv4Q[/youtube]