The Doom Room: ILF Edition

[Barracuda]

Whores artist spotlight, check it out homies:

http://tonightatdawn.com/2015/04/20/art ... ht-whores/

[D.o.S.]

Pope: as I see it, if the problem was being late on orders or whatever, then there's no problem: we've all done had situations beyond our control affect our work. There''s 110% benefit of the doubt there.

The shady part is deleting everything that isn't "This pedal is super awesome and will totally get me the STONER DOOM TONEZ OF 2015 AND BEYOND with the Orange "inspired" font and fucking 70's occult titties vibe." Especially when you've apparently got something going on beyond your control that is directly affecting the manufacture of said Occult Titties R Us pedals. It's very easy to say to people "sorry, I'm not taking new orders right now" unless you need the money from new orders to directly finish old ones, which is a variation on a Ponzi scheme. It's also very easy to take the time to make amends if you've got enough time to scrub the web of anything bad anyone has to say about your product.

[neonblack]

Christian, were you guys practicing at Thunderbox? I started commuting to ATL to play with a couple guys with a space there and after two really awesome practices, we found out the spot was going to be shut down. They are looking for another place to play, but I'm not sure their hearts are in it anymore. They said they had been looking for a practice space for months before they got in there, and then it just got yanked out from under us.

Fucking sucks hard.

[insubordination]

I've been refraining from commenting because I thought that Nic would have at least issued a public comment by now, but he hasn't.
I've been in contact with him, he has been going through some very tough times lately and I think the combination of his recent accident and current personal issues are keeping him rather preoccupied.
He says he is getting back on top of pedal orders and is nearly caught up.
Now, I know that this doesn't explain why he hasn't issued a statement or made very public apologies, unless he feels he can't really air his laundry, so to speak.
To be honest, I cannot understand that and if he won't defend himself by at least giving, what I've heard, are some damn good reasons for getting behind on orders and communications breaking down, then I can't defend him either.
Which I didn't come here to do.
I just thought I might pop in and say this may be one of those cases where we give him the benefit of the doubt.
The guy started a fledgling business.
May have made some claims about the size of orders he was unable to deliver on in a timely manner.
And then has gone through some pretty tough times.
He's made some fairly hefty mistakes in handling this, yes, but he is filling the orders as promised.
Again, the only reason I can imagine he hasn't communicated this very well is that he is simply trying to get on with it and not let outside circumstances interfere with his business, although they clearly have.

But, I guess we'll wait and see.
I'd just ask you guys to do the same until all the evidence is in.

What evidence? There is no evidence. None of us have any way of proving whatever "tough times" he claims to be going through. None of us can prove that his post office was throwing his packages (and his packages alone?) in a bin instead of mailing them (I strongly considered calling them but never did because I'm not THAT crazy), or any of his personal shit. Not saying none of it isn't happening, but none of us have any way of knowing. So I won't give him the benefit of the doubt on that, because I can't prove it.

And I did wait, three months, without a peep, and I didn't have it the worst. In the end, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt because he lied to me. End of story. Sure, it's not a big lie: "your pedal shipped, here's a picture of a receipt" (since I wouldn't end my Paypal dispute without proof of shipment and he gave me an untrackable tracking number). But it's a lie. And he has lied to others, and told a series of stories to several of us.

And you're right, he did start a business. That was one of the things he cited to me in his emails was the difficulty of running a business (the emphasis was his). You know what's part of a business? Customer service. That includes telling your customers when you're behind, being transparent and accountable to them if there are delays or what have you. And that also includes taking responsibility for your actions and not hiding behind a bunch of excuses and being combative when confronted, or lying, or deleting posts calling you out for those things. I've worked retail and a lot of other service-related jobs. The customer is NOT always right. But you don't ignore the customer if you want to keep customers or gain new ones. I'm a lost customer and he probably doesn't care and I don't care so whatever. I don't have a vendetta, so I'm happy to move on. People have been getting their shit, so I guess that's better than this becoming another gear forum horror story of undelivered products. I think anyone who is considering a pedal from Midnight should just be aware of what they are potentially getting into. I think it's only fair.

[chillerthanmost]

Regardless of having personal shit hit the fan, the dude is not ready for a business and it's that simple. I understand not wanting to air your laundry, but I don't understand taking $500 from someone (me) and not talking to me for 4 months, not letting me know anything besides that my pedals shipped (when they didn't really), yet he kept posting ads on tumblr and promoting new deals, new pedals, new sales, etc. Simply bad business. The dude can be sweet as cake, but he straight up sucks at business and should not be doing it at all. I would never buy from him again and I woulnd't recommend anyone to. I honestly feel my pedals would have never showed up unless I filed a PayPal dispute. Here's the part that really bummed me out though, when they came in I actually gave the pedals GOOD reviews. I said the experience sucked for me, but I said I liked the pedals enough that I DID encourage people to order form his as long as they are ready to wait a few months and go through some slow communication, but that the pedals were still great sounding. But he deleted all that. After the whole experience, I still had good and positive shit to say and he couldn't handle it because I said he took forever and that I filed a paypal dispute to get my pedals shipped. Again, bad business. The dude just needs to stop taking people's money, and stop his business until he get's his shit together. It's simple to come out and say you fucked up and are trying everything to fulfill what's already been ordered, and then taking a break until shit is ready to go back. Now he just made an ass out of himself, so I do agree that he IS AN ASSHAT. Straight up. I'm sorry if that offends anyone. But I don't have $500 just laying around like it's nothing.

<3

[Iommic Pope]

Points duly noted.
Look, you guys ordered, not me, so you have the first hand experience. I just had it communicated to me that there were some fairly extenuating circumstances and after coming through some tough times myself (and still finding it hard to get back on top of my basic day to day) I kind of had a moment where my heart bled, because I know how it can be.
Having said that, I don't disagree that customer service is paramount and an admission of circumstances as opposed to omission of the outcomes should have been the way this panned out.
Like I said, I can't defend those actions (its not my place, and is clearly beyond my abilities to do so, even it if it were), I just thought it might be prudent to wait and see if there were any steps taken to rectify this.

Chiller, I hadn't read your posts regarding feedback over in his sharktank, but after hearing that I can totally see why you're pissed as that seems like an honest and fair response to the situation and should definitely not have warranted anything other than an equally fair and honest response.

Like I said, not here to defend, just waiting for all the evidence to roll in before relegation and Lone Wolf status is branded.
But, the actions taken seem to be weighing in on the less than sunny side...

[maggot]

There are so many lovely people making absolutely raging expensive fuzz pedals that I don't know why it makes sense to go with a guy who's fucking up and lying about it. There's nothing wrong with saying fuck that guy, because there's no reason you should be wrangling about a fuzz. You do this shit for fun. People tend to be fairly nice if someone says, "I'm having X&Y problems so you're gonna have to deal with Z." But when you don't know if you're ever gonna get your shit and dude is lying about it, no one needs it, and the dude has plenty of competition.

[Barracuda]

But, the actions taken seem to be weighing in on the less than sunny side...

Indeed.

[chillerthanmost]

I definitely didn't mean to take anything out on you, Pope. I appreciate you sticking up to understanding a bad situation when you're on the shitty end of the stick. We've all been there, business or not. Like I said, even after all that, I tried to give the guy some credit and raved about his pedals and stated the experience in a professional way as to not entirely break the guy down or anything. It wasn't until he deleted everything that made me turn that around. That's the only reason I'm upset about this. Simply because he was too ashamed he deleted my neutral and honest opinion. It's also upsetting because I also support I<3Fuzz, so it sucks that I'm trying to be honest about something and trying to get others to know and understand what they might be getting into, and the posts still get deleted because he can't handle the heat. If he comes out with a statement than good for him, but it doesn't change my opinion on how he went about doing things. Again, sure the money played a big role because I don't simply drop that much on pedals, but everything was at least looking up until my voice was deleted by a business I gave money and positive/honest feedback about, and on a forum that I (financially help) support (as many of you guys do also) on a month to month basis.

[neonblack]

He definitely didn't plan ahead very well. By deleting those posts he drew even more attention to the situation than if he had just left it alone.

I got to play a Holy Mountain the other day and I gotta say, it didn't blow me away. I certainly wouldn't have spent 3 months in shipping limbo for it.

[Iommic Pope]

I definitely didn't mean to take anything out on you, Pope. I appreciate you sticking up to understanding a bad situation when you're on the shitty end of the stick. We've all been there, business or not. Like I said, even after all that, I tried to give the guy some credit and raved about his pedals and stated the experience in a professional way as to not entirely break the guy down or anything. It wasn't until he deleted everything that made me turn that around. That's the only reason I'm upset about this. Simply because he was too ashamed he deleted my neutral and honest opinion. It's also upsetting because I also support I<3Fuzz, so it sucks that I'm trying to be honest about something and trying to get others to know and understand what they might be getting into, and the posts still get deleted because he can't handle the heat. If he comes out with a statement than good for him, but it doesn't change my opinion on how he went about doing things. Again, sure the money played a big role because I don't simply drop that much on pedals, but everything was at least looking up until my voice was deleted by a business I gave money and positive/honest feedback about, and on a forum that I (financially help) support (as many of you guys do also) on a month to month basis.

Ah dude, don't worry about me. I didn't take that as an attack, I can just tell you're really REALLY unhappy.
Which is cool, you have every right to be.
I don't disagree with anything you've said there either.

I guess this sort of thing just makes me a bit sad.
Especially since, as you so rightly put it, there is a great sense of community here.

He definitely didn't plan ahead very well. By deleting those posts he drew even more attention to the situation than if he had just left it alone.

I have a feeling that planning for such large numbers of orders was the crucial point here, and then life events have certainly not helped. Deleting posts was defninitely a wrong move.

[chillerthanmost]

It bums me out too, man. It's upsetting and certainly I'm ticked off about it, but really it bums me out more because I enjoy this place and everyone I've run into here.

[Iommic Pope]

It bums me out too, man. It's upsetting and certainly I'm ticked off about it, but really it bums me out more because I enjoy this place and everyone I've run into here.

I can't sum it up better than that.

[samzadgan]

just reading all this stuff now...and it is upsetting.

I did contact him about a matamp clone a while ago, and never heard back, and then read that he had an accident. But by that time I actually got a real matamp (which wasnt all down to his communication, i think deep down i wanted a real matamp).

What is upsetting is that he got a lot of attention from those pedals, and it looked like the start of something really cool and a potentially good business. Which is great, and I love seeing guys succeeding, especially from Australia which has such small local market for anything outside the norm.

hope he can make amends (which i think would have to include public apology/explanation and refund option on all orders) and get things back on track.

[neonblack]

Dude needs to get on the iron ether business model. Build a couple, sell on first come first serve, ship IMMEDIATELY, repeat, profit