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You mention you work in logic - I would almost immediately recommend you work in Pro Tools. The interface is straight forward and it's geared towards the tracking side of music, not so much electronic music production.
All DAWs are tools, but I think logic is a blunt knife compared to PT for tracking bands.

I don't agree with this at all. The DAW is not the issue, nor should it ever be. It's a tool. Yes, each DAW has it's own workflow, but to tell the OP that his mixes will get better if he switches from Logic to PT is just bad advice. If he wants to spend money, it should go to the room and monitors. Anyone that truly that knows how to record in the digital world can make a great recording with any tracking software. People use lack of gear, software and plugins as a crutch and it is too often also used as the worst excuse ever for why things don't sound good.

Decibill wrote:

You mention you work in logic - I would almost immediately recommend you work in Pro Tools. The interface is straight forward and it's geared towards the tracking side of music, not so much electronic music production.
All DAWs are tools, but I think logic is a blunt knife compared to PT for tracking bands.

I don't agree with this at all. The DAW is not the issue, nor should it ever be. It's a tool. Yes, each DAW has it's own workflow, but to tell the OP that his mixes will get better if he switches from Logic to PT is just bad advice. If he wants to spend money, it should go to the room and monitors. Anyone that truly that knows how to record in the digital world can make a great recording with any tracking software. People use lack of gear, software and plugins as a crutch and it is too often also used as the worst excuse ever for why things don't sound good.

I don't think he is saying that PT will make his mixes sound better, I think he's just saying that PT is more intuitive and straight forward, which is something I've heard from a number of people that have used both DAW's. I've never used Logic, so I can't speak from experience, but I do find PT to be very easy to use after spending a little time getting to know it. I also know people who hate PT and love Logic. Whatever works man.

I do agree, however, that the DAW of choice shouldn't make fuck all of difference in the end result if it's used intelligently. Obviously more limited software like Garage Band are so limited that you probably will be chasing your tail a bit, but even that... if you're a good engineer that knows how to get the sounds right AT THE SOURCE (this! is what is paramount), than you could crush amateurs with GB too.

Good monitors, treat your room, make sure your gear (amps, guitars, etc...) is good and you have decent mics to capture them with, develop your technique/ears/knowledge of recording technology and the science behind it...THEN worry about preamps, compressors and all that other shit that dudes on Gearslutz think is what makes for a good sounding record....

Decibill wrote:

You mention you work in logic - I would almost immediately recommend you work in Pro Tools. The interface is straight forward and it's geared towards the tracking side of music, not so much electronic music production.
All DAWs are tools, but I think logic is a blunt knife compared to PT for tracking bands.

I don't agree with this at all. The DAW is not the issue, nor should it ever be. It's a tool. Yes, each DAW has it's own workflow, but to tell the OP that his mixes will get better if he switches from Logic to PT is just bad advice. If he wants to spend money, it should go to the room and monitors. Anyone that truly that knows how to record in the digital world can make a great recording with any tracking software. People use lack of gear, software and plugins as a crutch and it is too often also used as the worst excuse ever for why things don't sound good.

Sorry man, but not only do I not agree with you - I don't understand why you would get so offended.
The work flow of pro tools is much simpler, there's no two ways about it. It's literally the industry standard (with tracking bands) for a reason.
I'm absolutely not saying that if you switch DAWs that your mix will be better, but if you read what you quoted of mine - I think it's pretty straight forward.

Another suggestion - go buy the tape op books. Seriously, it's edited by Larry Crane and Steve Albini and they're a gold mine. Also, their forums are super helpful as well.

I'm not offended, but I think it's just bad advice being given to someone with an honest question.. You suggested to immediately switch DAW's. That's bad advice and should be far from the most immediate thing that the OP does to improve his mixes/living room studio...

wildebelor wrote:

Decibill wrote:

You mention you work in logic - I would almost immediately recommend you work in Pro Tools. The interface is straight forward and it's geared towards the tracking side of music, not so much electronic music production.
All DAWs are tools, but I think logic is a blunt knife compared to PT for tracking bands.

I don't agree with this at all. The DAW is not the issue, nor should it ever be. It's a tool. Yes, each DAW has it's own workflow, but to tell the OP that his mixes will get better if he switches from Logic to PT is just bad advice. If he wants to spend money, it should go to the room and monitors. Anyone that truly that knows how to record in the digital world can make a great recording with any tracking software. People use lack of gear, software and plugins as a crutch and it is too often also used as the worst excuse ever for why things don't sound good.

Sorry man, but not only do I not agree with you - I don't understand why you would get so offended.
The work flow of pro tools is much simpler, there's no two ways about it. It's literally the industry standard (with tracking bands) for a reason.
I'm absolutely not saying that if you switch DAWs that your mix will be better, but if you read what you quoted of mine - I think it's pretty straight forward.

Another suggestion - go buy the tape op books. Seriously, it's edited by Larry Crane and Steve Albini and they're a gold mine. Also, their forums are super helpful as well.

TapeOp is awesome. Free subscription to the magazine, so no excuse not to get it. The forum is a wealth of information as well. I've learned a lot there. Avoid Gearslutz at all costs.

wildebelor wrote:

Codyeatruck wrote:i'm tired of playing around with my tracks in logic forever. what do i need to get that "final" sound WHILE recording?

Firstly, this is somewhat misleading as it doesn't accurately portray anything!

i was referring to recording vocals.
i hear songs with all these loud fuzz guitars and they have one vocal track that sits perfectly.

i need to be able to record vocals that have a steady sound, while maintaining the dynamics.

so i REALLY need a good preamp, and MAYBE a compressor?

The MOTU pre's you have aren't bad. They are "fine". They aren't going to impart any magic, nor are they going to rob you of all that much. The vocal performance itself is really where the magic happens. Getting vocals to sit in the mix is mostly a matter of good mixing AND good arrangement. Most of the other instruments in rock mixes want to step on vocals. You cant have every instrument occupying all the same frequencies. Give each instrument its own space. Automate or side chain a compressor to move guitars out of the way when the vocals come in. It really sounds like you "want" to buy a pre or compressor though---but I don't think that solution is going to give you what you are looking for. Trust me--I love getting new gear. But I wasted too much money trying to buy new gear in hopes that it would be a magic wand of sorts. It almost never is. In all honesty you should be able to get within close striking distance of the mixes you want with the gear you have, with the exception of the drums (if you are micing and recording them live). Sorry to say also that one nice outboard mic pre or compressor isn't going to do squat for your drum recording. You need at least two of each to make a big difference. Drums more than anything else require lot's of time and experience micing,positioning, tuning and getting them in a good sounding room with a good player. Good vocals, guitar and bass are much more attainable, but still not easy. Recording and mixing well is not easy. Recording something that sounds great is even harder. Your best upgrades at this point would be a nice set of monitors and room treatment, hands down, no doubt.

yeah 10-4 on that. right now acoustic treatment isn't going to happen because i live in an apartment. when i hopefully buy a house this year, building a room with separated walls and acoustic treatment is definitely #1 on the list.

thank you SO MUCH for introducing me to tapeOP!!! this is exactly what i've been needing!

I'm going to be that guy...

Room treatment comes first. It doesn't really matter what gear or monitors you have if your room doesn't allow for proper monitoring. The best mics, outboard, and monitors become meaningless if you can't hear what you are aiming for.

Get Mike Senior's book "Mixing Secrets for the small studio". By far the best, most informative, and straight forward book on recording and mixing. You could have the best gear ever and if you don't know how to mix then you are pretty much fucked. Yes having room treatment will make your mixes better, but again if you don't understand mixing then it's a wasted effort and money. It's been said that monitors are important. You said you had the yamaha HS5? Then your set on decent speakers. Like it's already been said on this thread, give the best producers the worst tools and they will make a solid, if not excellent mix. If you record your vocals after the rest of the band, they shouldn't set perfectly above everything else and be "Final". Final is in the mastering process. If you are mastering and I doubt anyone on here can do it correctly (although I'm sure much of us, like myself have plug-ins to do it and we do).... It should be left for someone who is a professional and cost a pretty penny. Your vocals should sound good and close to final once you are done mixing. I never had a song that right after recording the vocals I thought "Yep that's final". If you record anything and you think that it is final and haven't listened to it compared to the mix you have a long way to go. Yes a lot of stuff can sound good once done recording but when mixing everything needs it's own spot in the mix. Otherwise you will have shit competing in the mix and that will leave something else not heard or sounding lite/weak. Learn how to mix, and learn how to mix well. That is far more important than treated rooms, $1000 microphones, and big studios. I live in a town of 40,000 people. We have one guy who has a half a million dollar studio. I can tell you that anyone on this site can probably mix better than him. Don't believe me, I'll send you tracks from a EP I recorded with him from my first band that was a grand for 10 hours of studio time. I can also send you tracks from his LP which he spent a year recording and mixing. You best tool is your ears. Someone before my post said it perfectly. Use your ears, go back to the books, then use your ears some more. Mike Seniors website actually has songs you can download that don't have a fucking thing put on them except the live recording and you can practice your mixing. I suggest if you're not getting the sound you want then do that, again, again, and again. I can tell you he can record in reaper with no other plug-ins besides the few basics that come with it. With crappier gear compared to yours and come out with a far better mix than anyone on this site.

My last thing is that today recording gear is cheap, that doesn't mean everyone should be a producer. If you love it and want to get better than it's probably for you. If it's just something your doing to get ideas down, then use it for that and pay someone who knows what they are doing. I meet way to many people who "Produce" or "Record Bands", and they really shouldn't be charging people for the work they do. I've spent years practicing and getting better at producing and I have only charged a few people to record. Yeah I can give them a better product than someone who charges out the ass for shit recordings, but I'm still learning and growing everyday I work on it.

Good post there -- definitely important to know what you can do compared to what you can't.

Of course, most of the fun comes from saying "fuck you" to what you can't accomplish, but you do need some more-objective method of evaluating your own successes and failures.

Codyeatruck wrote:
i'm tired of playing around with my tracks in logic forever. what do i need to get that "final" sound WHILE recording?
.

REALLY expensive gear.

GardenoftheDead wrote:

Codyeatruck wrote:
i'm tired of playing around with my tracks in logic forever. what do i need to get that "final" sound WHILE recording?
.

REALLY expensive gear.

False. Plenty of good albums are made with decent gear or worse. It's experience that gets you to the point of getting great results right off the bat (secondary to the song and the skill of the people playing it). "REALLY expensive gear" is just a tool. It is awesome to get to make records with really fancy shit, but it's most definitely not necessary.

listen to PJ Harvey's "White Chalk" album. Mackie board and a bunch of Shure SM58s... tell me that sounds bad at all, or the new Angel Olsen. There's an interview where John Congleton says they didn't use any mics that cost more than $150. Sounds amazing.

I think GardenoftheDead might have been being facetious.