ilovefuzz.com

^^^^

Designing and building complicated stuff... is complicated. Surprisingly.

Value for money is in the eye of the beholder. I'm with you that this pedal is too complex FOR ME and so would be poor value. For a person who wants to use the extra features it offers? Might looks like decent value.

Definitely would be poor value for me cause I'd need 16 of them to do what I do with Mobius, and couldn't keep them in sync.

But if I was looking for a two track looper, I would seriously be considering it.

i don't deny that it could be useful for a small subset of looper users. a lot of it is that i have a problem with the idea of $500 pedals in general. for me there's no such thing as a pedal that's worth $500. $350, maybe. and is a looper really more complex than the plethora of sub-$300 Behringer synths? you're being gouged. if you're OK with that, very well.

I don't understand the repeated comparisons to the cheapest products on the market in categories other than pedals when we're talking about a small company's boutique looper made in a country with a high cost of living. Marshall Origin amps and Behringer's synths are entry level products made by massive companies. Glou Glou is a few people making prestige gear. They're not going to meet comparable price points and they also make products that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It seems like you fixate on one issue like complexity or cost when there are many facets to how products are priced. If you like cheap gear that is fine. Everyone loves a bargain. But none of the products you are comparing to are loopers with loads of features not available elsewhere.

the point, as you well know, is that you cannot justify a $500 looper on grounds of complexity when far more complex gear sells for less, including in the world of effects. nor can you justify it on grounds of utility unless you loop 24/7. it's not that i "like cheap gear," it's that i don't like boutique companies ripping people off, which increasingly seems like many companies' business model.

at this point i think it would be wise to agree to disagree. neither of us are going to change their minds, and i'd prefer not to have a bitch fest. i'm trying to learn when to stop.

dubkitty wrote:i don't deny that it could be useful for a small subset of looper users. a lot of it is that i have a problem with the idea of $500 pedals in general. for me there's no such thing as a pedal that's worth $500. $350, maybe. and is a looper really more complex than the plethora of sub-$300 Behringer synths? you're being gouged. if you're OK with that, very well.

Behringer is pretty well known to be a company that takes what other people have spent money and know-how creating and then make a cheap knock-off.
If you're okay with that, very well.

I think whoismarykelly makes a very good point about comparing similar things to similar things.

If a used Gibson Echoplex Deluxe Pro is around $500 and this Glou-Glou is about the same price,
then they can be discussed in tandem. The EDP has a separate foot controller and is rackmount.
So there can be a size difference right there. And many people don't have things set up with the
rack gear paradigm in mind.

Poly Effects has a looper program in development for their Beebo. The Beebo is also about $500
and so therefore relevant in a conversation about capabilities and drawbacks. Except that the
looper program is still being worked on and hasn't even been beta-tested.
http://www.polyeffects.com/
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index. ... s.2206824/

The Chase Bliss Blooper is $500 and already out. It is a small pedal and seems to benefit from MIDI or
external control unless you are okay with some amount of fiddling.


So how much user-accessible, foot-controlled stuff is worth what to a person who wants dynamic looping
capabilities? Of course the phrase-sampling verse/chorus consumer is far more numerous than the delay-line
looper, and so perhaps these complex(ish) products of limited(ish) cache are priced accordingly? If it isn't
for you, then not buying it will certainly help send that message.

The Zoia has a looper module, and there are loads of different looper patches already available on patchstorage.

Paul_C wrote:The Zoia has a looper module, and there are loads of different looper patches already available on patchstorage.

And also costs $500.

And it does like 1032948 other things.

i didn't say i was OK with Behringer. there's no point in talking about this if people are are going to ring me up for things i didn't even say. this circular, imma-catch-you-out style of argument establishes nothing about the premises involved.

I support these stands! Have refreshments, lemonade and cookies etc for those that need a rest from all that activity . . . .

I think it is awesome that EDP style looping is the new IVP pedal: Long-ignored kit that everyone is rushing to at one time.

Though I usually think Glou Glou pedals are remarkably much larger than their functions, the size of their EDP style looper is actually pretty small for all that functionally.

I am very much into the Glou Glou Loupe. Price hasn't been announced yet so any speculation can suck it. I would expect at least $500 since proper comparison to other highly capable loopers they are in that range. EDP is amazing, and still king of loopers for a device that is over two decades old. The entry level stuff is fine if you are into boring ass phrase looping but not much new hardware technology have pushed looping techniques forward. The looper market has largely regressed in terms of creativity.

tremolo3 wrote:And it does like 1032948 other things.

I think that is equally true of the Zoia and (when it comes out) the Poly Effects Beebo.

Poly Quote:
Beebo is a pedal that gives you the power of a modular synth in an easy to use touch screen format.
If you want great live tools, to push the boundaries of sound design, capture real spaces or simulate
a sitar, it's all possible. Beebo now includes all the features of the previous Digit firmware as well.

dubkitty wrote:i didn't say i was OK with Behringer. there's no point in talking about this if people are are going to ring me up for things i didn't even say. this circular, imma-catch-you-out style of argument establishes nothing about the premises involved.

dubkitty wrote:for me there's no such thing as a pedal that's worth $500. $350, maybe. and is a looper really more complex than the plethora of sub-$300 Behringer synths? you're being gouged. if you're OK with that, very well.

In order to have a conversation it's necessary to define terms and premises or at least acknowledge
whether or not people are talking about the same thing. You brought up Behringer synths as a
comparison to what "value" and "gouging" and "complexity" mean to you and why you won't pay
$500 for any pedal.

But whoismarykelly has brought up the idea that a guitar or an amp or a synth isn't the same object
or tool as a pedal looper, and so to judge "value" or "gouging" or "complexity" in terms of pedal loopers
you really need to talk about other pedal loopers. I provided examples. All of them seem to be around
$500, and many of them require a person to purchase MIDI devices to allow for live-use where parameter
changes are initiated by a footswitch or CV/expression pedal while a person uses two hands to play guitar.

Here is a quote from the Looping Madness thread about the potential need for external devices
for the Poly Beebo (when and if the looper module is released):

Tall Walls wrote:Loki shared a link to the Beebo "loopler" module beta in the Poly Fb group. I haven't spent much time with it, but at first blush it appears that you can't do very much if you don't have a full-on MIDI setup. I can record a loop, but accessing all of the insert/substitute/multiply/etc. functions by poking at the screen while also playing isn't practical. So do I invest in some MIDI controller with a buttload of switches so I can really use this module? Signs point to no. Increasingly I'm just using the Beebo for the convolution reverbs. But even there, the stereo reverb module only has a mono input, so if I'm sending a stereo signal into the Beebo I end up using two mono reverbs. Which sounds nice enough but it's not the same. I'm feeling more and more iffy about the Beebo.

Here is another looper pedal that costs 480 Euros (over $500).
In the video it touts the fact that this pedal has footswitches
for engaging LPF and HPF so you can play guitar with hands and
make changes with feet without buying a secondary switch system.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4DnMpmd3HU[/youtube]

The only thing I'm trying to catch is the drift of your argument.
It's possible to meaningfully and fruitfully talk about both apples
and oranges, but to do so requires making sure those involved are
using mutually coherent terms and definitions.