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yo, so this has been a huge headache for me

I'm using an e609 (into a motu 8pre and recording on Logic) to record some real fuzzed out guitar (using demo tape fuzz).
I can't seem to get that full overpowering fuzz that I hear coming out of my amp.

when i play back my takes, they almost always sound like there is way too much high end. My beautiful angry fuzz becomes somewhat annoying.

I can pretty much get the tone i'm looking for with some EQing, but I don't like changing my tone with a computer. I want my natural guitar tone.

I've tried many different mic positions/angles and have gotten minimal improvements.

any advice/tricks of the trade?

This sounds kinda dumb, but have you ever played with your amp at head level?
It's a really big shift in sound from standing way above it. You hear what the mic is getting.

^good point.

Also if you have the equipment, it might be worth setting up a room mic and blending it with the cab mic to see if that helps.
I don't know enough about mic placement to be of much help there, but I absolutely hate any dirty guitar I record with a single mic. Dual amp setups and room microphones are what fixes it to me personally.

so you're saying to try recording my guitar in stereo, use the e609 on the amp and a condenser mic somewhere in the space?

I know exactly what you are saying. I'd first look into mic placement in relation to the speaker (ie, moving it around while something is going through the speaker to see how the recorded sound is effected), if that doesn't help anything, I'd look into blending like suggested previously, or trying out different mics if you have the resources available.

I currently am running a kick drum mic and a 60's vocal mic (both not really ideal candiates for recording) that run into a mixer and then into my computer, so super, super simple. I've found that mic placement has been really, really important, along with actually tweaking pedals that I am using too. It might sound great coming out of the amp, but you might need to change the sound slightly to match what you are hearing in the room to what is actually being picked up by the mic, almost like compensation.

For example, last night i was recording a track with a fuzz, and it sounded GREAT through the amp, but then when I was listening to it play back after being recorded, it had a little too much treble. So I turned it down a bit, and actually got the sound I was looking for that was coming through the amp previously.

Yeah man, just experiment. Something like the e609 a few cm from the grill cloth and a condenser a couple of meters away can sound cool.
It won't be stereo but they'll be picking up different frequencies and you'll get a bit of room sound to get it closer to what you're hearing.
The type of mix it's sitting in is a big factor too, if you have a room mic set up for guitar it can muddy a band mix but if the other instruments drop out it'll enhance the guitar a lot.

609s are very bright mics, IME. Not much happening in the low end there. I never really could get into them for amp recording, but you could def. do a lot worse, so keep working at it.

Sounds like you've tried a lot of positioning options, but usually turning the mic a bit off-axis, or moving it away from the dust cap and more toward the outer edge of the speaker should help. Also, I find the brighter mics mellow a touch when you ad some distance between mic and source. The trade off being that you sacrifice [potentially] desirable low end thickness that is attributed to proximity effect. You could add a bit back in via turning the bass up on your amp, or with an EQ in your software/hardware.

Don't rely the visual aspect of things. The mic placement that gives you the tone you're after might look completely fucked, but if it works, then it works.

Be careful with multi-micing setups if you're not used to them, or are new to recording. People always advocate for doing things like that, but rarely mention the importance of phase coherency between the mics and source. If this isn't addressed properly, then you could potentially make your sound weaker/thinner than it already is, or introduce comb-filtering into your high frequencies (the worst). A room mic won't address the fact that your tone is too bright in the close mic. Some of the best recordings are the most simple, done with one mic. It's not a fixer to use 2 mics, but as someone who often does, it can be a cool thing. Generally I like a dark/think ribbon mic balanced with something bright like a 57 for blending purposes. The reason to use 2 mics is generally because you like aspects of one that the other isn't giving you, and vise versa. Again, I can't stress enough... check your phase coherency or you are fucked.

Your tone that you use in live settings means nothing when what is coming out of the other end of your recording setup is not satisfactory. I almost 100% of the time, I have to adjust amp, pedal, etc... settings after people dial in the tone they use. Sometimes a lot, sometimes just tiny amounts. You're introducing variables into the equation, such as the frequency response of your mic, your monitoring environment, the headroom of your preamps... on and on... so it's inevitable that adjustments would be required, because the only thing that really matters in the end, is that the RECORDED sound (not the sound in the room) represents your sonic goal for the overall mix/song. It might sound exactly how you want in the room, but again, that means jack shit if it's not coming out of your speakers the way you intend it to. There are exceptions of course. I have recorded a few guitarists where you just point any old mic at the speaker and the work is done, but that's not always the case.

Also, never worry about EQ'ing after the fact, if that is what it takes. If you're having to make giant broad strokes with EQ to get the sound you want, then I suggest going back to the source and working harder at getting that how you want it, but subtle EQ changes on the way in are common and again, if it gets you where you want to go, there's no shame in that.

awesome, thanks everyone.

maggotbrainNY, if 609s are considered bright, what would you recommend using to capture the blown out fuzzy goodness of my tone?

Just to add another little thing to the mix, check where you set your gain / drive on your pedals and amp, lots of times I find that using substantially less or more gain (usually less)
gives a much better recording then when I setup my pedals and sometimes also my amp where I usually set them when I play live.

Codyeatruck wrote:awesome, thanks everyone.

maggotbrainNY, if 609s are considered bright, what would you recommend using to capture the blown out fuzzy goodness of my tone?

Well, I don't know what your tone sounds like, so I can't make a solid recommendation. You should be able to get something completely useable with the 609 if you keep experimenting with mic position, amp settings, pedal combinations/settings, guitars, etc...

My favorite mic for recording guitar amps is generally a Beyerdynamic M160, sometimes combined with another mic like a 57. I would be pretty comfortable having those as my only options for most amps, but it is nice to have others as well.

Tristan wrote:Just to add another little thing to the mix, check where you set your gain / drive on your pedals and amp, lots of times I find that using substantially less or more gain (usually less)
gives a much better recording then when I setup my pedals and sometimes also my amp where I usually set them when I play live.

good point. Usually less gain works out better in my experience as well. Not in every case, but more than I expected when I got into doing this stuff. It's honestly one of the reasons I shifted from high gain, modern sounding heads to older, more dynamically responsive, less-gainy amps.

I usually have the mic right by the grill, but when I go full on blown out huge fuzz, I move the mic back 12 inches.

Also, turn the gain down.

As stated above move your mic around is the main point, A big point is to understand what your mic will pick up as far as EQ. What you hear is totally different than what your microphone will pick up. If you are using only analog gear, find the exact tone that you want with the amp/mic/pedal you want in your mix. If you are using a DAW then EQ your tone later in the mix. While your tone might be your most important thing to your ears, if the rest of your mix doesn't add up then it really doesn't matter. I know on this site people might frown upon this, but your mix is only relevant with everything else in the mix. This might not answer your exact question but it serves it's purpose.

I like to move my head around down at the speaker level till my ears hear the sound I want. Then I place the mic there as a starting point. Then make slight adjustments from there till I get the desired recorded result.

Fuzz sounds can be challenging to record for a lot of reasons.

1) It's usually very un-dynamic.

2) Many fuzzes that sound huge (like muffs) actually have a fairly narrow bandwidth.

3) Much of the harmonic magic happens out in the room rather than at the electron level. What the mics hear isn't necessarily what you hear, and it's hard to recreate the fuzz goodness when reproducing the sound.

Techniques I've used:

1) Move the mic back.
2) Continue to close mic, but also have a mic further back.
3) Reduce gain for more definition.
4) Multi-track: For loud simple fuzz parts, I often mix three parts. The main fuzz guitar track I record at a slightly lower gain than usual for definition. Then I record a track of hyper-exaggerated fuzz that's often more ill-defined than I would ever use solo, and treblier as well. I use that one to dial in the gnar. Then I record a track that's not fuzz at all, to provide more definition.

I don't always use all three tracks, or even more than one, but it helps. You can't always finesse the paradox where the big superfuzz part sounds small all of a sudden when you record it. When you situate the tracks in a mono or stereo field you can begin to get some of the sonic complexity that volume and physicality will get you when you're playing with fuzz in a room.

When you're there, it's louder than you usually listen to recorded music; there's sound coming out the back of the amp and bouncing around the room. And you're hearing it from two different spots at any given time.

You have to recreate that as an illusion when you're recording.