The Last Jedi

[Invisible Man]

It didn’t feel safe because of the payoff I expected. We’ve spent 40 years thinking Luke Skywalker is a god-like Force messiah. This movie relegated him to the role of diminished character, not the ‘legend’ he sarcastically refers to himself as. And you could have easily had it both ways.

But this is disappointing. You withhold the main character from an entire movie (TFA), likely because he’s an unwieldy deus ex machina and then he doesn’t do anything remotely in keeping with the way the character’s been set up for several decades. This doesn’t look like a new element of his character; it looks like another opportunity for this movie to subvert the expectations set up by nearly every moment of the previous movie. It cheapens TFA as well as the original trilogy. TLJ seems a lot to me like a crew of writers who are congratulating themselves for their cleverness.

Star Wars is not highbrow cinema. It’s the story of a family and their struggle with the reconciliation of power, destiny, choice, and heroes’ arcs. This episode takes great care to shit on those things. And that’s ok, because outside of Star Wars (and frequently in Star Wars) those are staid and even corny themes. But I don’t see why there are direct addresses to the audience to tell Rey that she ‘has no place in this story,’ or have Luke throw his lightsaber over his shoulder, or give Yoda a brief ‘fuck you, superfans’ scene.

I had fun and will watch again. But I thought this is a good movie that is embarrassed to be a Star Wars flick.

[Invisible Man]

...hence Mini in a Klon enclosure.

I have way more to say, but typing all this on a phone is annoying.

[Invisible Man]

Another thought: if you can destroy massive ships by blasting into them at light speed...why doesn’t every kamikaze pilot do that? Or put hyperdrives on a goddamn bantha? Bombs away!

[Invisible Man]

NSFW: show

It is truly bizarre that Leia is blasted into space, dies, is revived, and Force-Supermans her way back to safety. And no one ever talks about it again.

Luke’s exit is so anti-climactic as to be criminal.

[vallaton]

oh, that's true. i saw TFA in the theaters and didn't really remember all the buildup for luke. but i have to say, i feel like they'd made him yoda-ish in this. the last jedi, living alone in a (kind of) deserted place, not that keen on training another one. and i liked that. but i didn't like the comic dismissal of the lightsaber, the bullshit training period of a few days, and that yoda had to come back to guide him once more. would've liked him portrayed more as a powerful and wise hermit that has given up, not an idiot who doesn't get it.

not sure what you mean by the yoda scene being a fuck you to the superfans, but i guess i'd have to be a superfan to get it?

i feel like this was sort of meta star wars movie. they had all these elements of old sw-movies, but tried to be clever with our expectations in every turn. like an infiltration mission to the enemy ship to turn down some switch (and this time they failed), a lovable misfit mercenary with a heart of gold (though this time he betrays the heroes) and so on. the movie was FULL of that and it was boring.
though i liked that scene that made it clear that rey was something else. she isn't like a secret daughter (another "gotcha" there, i guess) of a skywalker, but she's still important.

[vallaton]

NSFW: show

It is truly bizarre that Leia is blasted into space, dies, is revived, and Force-Supermans her way back to safety. And no one ever talks about it again.

NSFW: show

oh yeah. this was awkward. i guess they had to remind the audience that she's strong in jedi potential even if untrained, and that her scary powerful blood is what runs in ben's veins. or something.

[vallaton]

Another thought: if you can destroy massive ships by blasting into them at light speed...why doesn’t every kamikaze pilot do that? Or put hyperdrives on a goddamn bantha? Bombs away!

finding plot holes in star wars movies should be a drinking game.

[Andrew]

I liked it a lot, genuinely surprised that people didn't like it - give it a solid B. Though I really, really hated Rouge One and I might be generalizing but I feel like the fans that loved R1 didn't like this one. It's fucking Star Wars in all it's badass and cheesy glory. Rogue One didn't have any form of compelling characters and was hamfisted with fan service. This atleast somewhat played with expectations, had likeable enough characters with great direction and cinematography.

The thing with Sci-fi fandom is that it is such an emotional investment that you build your own expectations and then usually gets shit on by the time the next installment comes around. I'm not going to be watching any Side-story movies in theaters because they won't be showing Star Wars in the way that it is best presented. The Han Solo/Obi Wan movies are just paying the bills.


The Prank Call was dismal though, yesh.

[Invisible Man]

I agree with every one of those points, Vallaton.

The Yoda scene references this ancient tree where (supposedly) the Force was first used or born or initiated by two siblings. It was the birthplace of the light/dark dichotomy. Whether or not this tree is the one in the movie is unclear, but there’s no mistaking the reference if you study this stuff.

So Force ghost puppet Yoda shows up starts torching things with lightning we didn’t know he could summon in life, much less as an apparition. And apparently he and Luke haven’t talked despite Luke’s very familiar ascetic Jedi routine. Yoda—the character we most associate with maintenance of the Jedi order—is pretty damn cavalier about burning some sacred texts and getting chummy with Luke.

I get why they can pull this off from a narrative perspective (Rey ‘has everything she needs’), but there are so many instances like this where the movie goes out of its way to buck a tradition or break a character. I’m not a conservative moviegoer, but I don’t know what that practice gets you when you have an infinite canvas and all you have to do is let Mick Jagger on stage—he doesn’t even have to play Satisfaction. Just let him be Mick Jagger. Don’t make him sing Rihanna tunes.

I’m emboldened to swing harder on these shitty metaphors.

[neonblack]

The thing with Sci-fi fandom is that it is such an emotional investment that you build your own expectations and then usually gets shit on by the time the next installment comes around.

This is my entire relationship with the Alien franchise. I have been disappointed with every Alien movie that has actually come out in my lifetime but I still go see every one of them.

[Andrew]

Jesus Christ. I didn't really pay attention to the whole backlash of this movie until I spent the last hour seeing people's reaction. It's the same fuckers that wrote off Rey for being a 'mary sue'. I'm done with Star Wars fans

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdXIQ-AFBeU[/youtube]
I'm right with them

[vallaton]

I liked it a lot, genuinely surprised that people didn't like it - give it a solid B. Though I really, really hated Rouge One and I might be generalizing but I feel like the fans that loved R1 didn't like this one. It's fucking Star Wars in all it's badass and cheesy glory. Rogue One didn't have any form of compelling characters and was hamfisted with fan service. This atleast somewhat played with expectations, had likeable enough characters with great direction and cinematography.

i remember really liking rogue one, so you might be on to something. i try to steer clear of fandoms nowadays so i have no idea what the general consensus is of the movies or knew that there were "people who liked rogue one" and "people who didn't". it's been a while since seeing it as i saw it only in the theaters. what do you mean by it being hamfisted with fan service if the last jedi wasn't?

i feel like i should see these movies again to talk about them. i remember TFA and R1 looking a lot better than the last jedi, and i wouldn't call the direction great in this one either. i feel like i was more emotionally invested in the characters in R1 than in this. again, this might be because i had such low expectation of TFA and R1 and would be as annoyed with them as i was with this one if i rewatched.

i really liked kylo and rey scenes though and i feel like the movie should've been more focused around them instead of a casino heist and infiltration that in the end didn't even matter that much, or maybe only made things a bit worse for the rebellion. i liked finn and rose as characters, and it's a shame that they didn't get to do anything important. are they around just to make sure everyone gets it that only jedis can change anything in this universe? were they there just to inspire that slave kid to become the next jedi rebel or something? like what was the point?

[Invisible Man]

Rian Johnson is producing a separate trilogy. I assume that it’ll center on the kid who is in the closing shot. Jedi Harry Potter.

[vallaton]

Rian Johnson is producing a separate trilogy. I assume that it’ll center on the kid who is in the closing shot. Jedi Harry Potter.

ah, that would explain the scene. i thought it was just some more awkward cheese for the sake of awkward cheese.

[Olin]

Rian Johnson is producing a separate trilogy. I assume that it’ll center on the kid who is in the closing shot. Jedi Harry Potter.

ah, that would explain the scene. i thought it was just some more awkward cheese for the sake of awkward cheese.

It was, leading to three more films of cheese. Trying to please everyone with cheese is never going to work Rian you cheese-pleaser.