After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[hbombgraphics]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/us/nazi-congress-illinois.html

wow, that dude is a legit asshole

I don't understand people who deny the Holocaust, it shows such a limited world view.
I also can't believe there isn't one republican who will oppose this guy.

[Chankgeez]

Yeah, even though a Republican hasn't been elected in that district in over forty years, you'd think it'd still be a good look for the GOP to convince someone else to run.

[hbombgraphics]

Yeah, even though a Republican hasn't been elected in that district in over forty years, you'd think it'd still be a good look for the GOP to convince someone else to run.

apparently the GOP doesn't care about optics.


On a related note the Polish President has been a real Casserole this week

Nothing makes you look like a Nazi quite like passing a law that prevents people from calling you a Nazi.


edit: Link added
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ef471a62c6

it's a convoluted mess but I think they just made everything worse

[dubkitty]

i dunno what the fuck's up with all the Nazi love these days...you'd think that people would twig to the fact that it didn't work out so well last time

[Chankgeez]

3:40

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Pq782F9zA[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Pq782F9zA

[Bassist_Diver]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/us/nazi-congress-illinois.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8[/youtube]

[Kacey Y]

3:40

[youtube][/youtube]

He's previously claimed there was no substantive link between CO2 production and climate change or that science didn't have the means to accurate measure and analyze all the data to make any accurate conclusions. Now he says it's real and we're causing it, but who's to say that's bad? Who are WE to say what the climate should be?

This is such an insane point of view. Analogous to seeing someone with a knife in their hand, thrusting it forward as they walk towards a crowd and claiming "Yes, they have a knife. Sure, they're thrusting it around. Will someone get stabbed? It's hard to say, we can't accurately predict the outcome given all these variables, but who's to say that's BAD? Is it our place to decide who does and doesn't get stabbed? Are we so arrogant??".

[Invisible Man]

I'm really bummed out by the implicit criticism that smart people extrapolating data makes them arrogant. 'Intellectual' is such a dirty word for nearly everyone regardless of creed and credo.

How about let the (admittedly broken) meritocracy run a little bit? There are already tons of limiting factors--maybe just let people do their fuckin jobs? Like: let scientists do science. Let televised windbags be windbags. Our ability to separate useful information from useless information isn't just a matter of it being snowed under by tons of worthless data; it's also that we have so devalued expertise with claims of eggheadedness that we 'don't trust' anything.

[Kacey Y]

The cultural turn against expertise is really multi-faceted. You'd think it would be all extreme political/cultural fringe movements, but it's also directly tied to DIY communities too. The difference is that in those communities there's an open acknowledgement that there are people with master level knowledge and skill, but that they should openly share it for free and not be gatekeepers. Where as in the fringes on things like science, it's mostly just a general distrust of any outside authority, with the implication or outright expression that they're lying and trying to swindle, control and mislead people at worst or that the experts are just their own opinionated fringe that insist on saying their beliefs are facts.

I have such conflicting feelings on the subject in some regards, because I have and have made money off self taught skill, as well as skill/trade that was directly taught to me by an expert and I also value delegating specifically skilled work to experts. I know how to build and have general construction knowledge, but outside small projects, I hire contractors and builders to work on my home. I record and mix music myself, but I have it professionally mastered. I have done professional graphic design work, both freelance and as part of jobs I've had, and I've done my own album artwork and I've hired people to do it. I have a basic respect and reverence for science and medicine, but I'm also skeptical of statistical based studies or behavior psychology papers that are assembled from data mining. However, I don't think any of this is what goes on in government with the anti-science stances. I firmly believe it's straight up "I support an economic agenda and the implications of this would hamper/harm that, so I reject it, because it seems like it won't immediately kill me to do that, but it will immediately benefit my agenda". There might be a heavy dose of self delusion involved, I think at best it's an attempt at willfully ignoring something you don't want to know about.

[Invisible Man]

I agree with all of that (and think it is right), but would differentiate the point on DIY to say that it seems to move in two directions. One is antagonistic (I REJECT THE TENETS OF X) and the other is maker-oriented (woudn't it be cool if I could do X?). It's probably a smaller subset than it seems to be, though, since DIY only means that no one pays you to do it. I'm a DIY employee in the sense of making shit up and hoping it works...but that's obviously a contradiction in terms. I just mean that there's no systemic guarantee of quality or accuracy that I can count on because I belong to a network of other assholes.

What the fuck am I talking about here.

[Kacey Y]

I get what you are saying. That's what I was trying to express, but I probably wasn't communicating as effective as I'd like to be. Mostly because I don't want to write 20 paragraphs (I do, but I want what I write to be read).

When I say DIY, I mean loosely the culture that's formed around that. Maker culture, DIY crafts and home improvement/remodeling/decorating, upcycling and all that stuff. Even DIY music communities, artists, writers. People that not only reject the traditional systems of distribution, payment, patronage, etc., but actively try to subvert or disrupt them (even if it doesn't necessarily benefit them). There's a lot of really specific sub cultures within that umbrella and some of those view experts as aspirational figures, others view them as "The Man", either irrelevant distractions to be ignored or targets to be taken down.

Like I said, I have a lot of mixed feelings about the subject. There's a lot of subjects/debates/issues that I have feelings and opinions about, but feel obliged to side with a certain faction or stay out of completely on principle. I might not agree with everything about how the mainstream academic and journalistic approach to science is operating right now, but I believe science is valid and valuable, so I'm against anti-science attitudes.

[dubkitty]

CNN interviews literal Illinois Nazi; you'll want to listen on headphones if you're in the office. totally NSFW.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-camero ... interview/

[dubkitty]

did y'all know that the Nazis in "The Blues Brothers" were based on actual neo-Nazis who worked the Southwest Side of Chicago? the head Nazi in the movie even resembles the actual leader of the National Socialist Party of America, one Frank Collin (who was later convicted of child molestation!) and the scene from the movie posted above was filmed in the actual location in Marquette Park where their rallies occurred. the Chicago-centric content in that film is frighteningly/hilariously accurate. source: i grew up in Chicago and lived there till the end of 1979.

[Chankgeez]

Yep, great movie. RIP, Carrie Fisher.

[D.o.S.]

CNN interviews literal Illinois Nazi; you'll want to listen on headphones if you're in the office. totally NSFW.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-camero ... interview/

Why even give him a platform? To embarrass him? I don't think that's possible.

But... "pay-tri-ott's"