baritone guitars for non-doom usage?

[Blackened Soul]

i really appreciate you going to all this effort finding information for me about this stuff. it's really helping a lot.

that’s why we’re here

Uh, the tuners are cool. I hate to drill out tuners for fat strings. I did this twice already. It's not difficult but nonetheless nerve-wrecking...

I know! That metal gets thin.. I think if I was to go through another build.. I’d want to the old style fender tuners like a bass vi… having a tailpiece / bigsby helps I the long strings…

[dubkitty]

my operating assumption is that i’ll start out using the bridge that comes with the loaded CV Jazzmaster body, which is the Mustang-style bridge with the big cylindrical saddles with a single deep groove. since the saddle height is individually adjustable i should be able to make it work with a 12” radius. i think it’s 9.5”. i really didn’t like that bridge for standard tuning with .010s, but it might be just the thing for heavier strings. if i hadn’t found these tuners i’d have gone with regular vintage-style Fender tuners, whose split shafts look able to accommodate fairly heavy strings. the ones on the CVJM handle the heavier set on there now with room to spare. old-school Fender parts seem to handle heavy strings well…after all, they expected people to put .012 flatwound sets on Jazzmasters. if the Mustang bridge doesn’t work i might try a Gretsch Melita bridge i’m watching on eBay, but i don’t know the radius.

i’m glad i found the tuners because given that everything about this is different from my normal to some degree or another i’m trying to make everything as simple as possible so i want locking tuners, and was not comfortable with the idea of drilling out posts. i could probably do it, but the amount of worry would be entirely disproportionate to the actual work. you might think i’m devil-may-care whacking away at my projects, but every significant task has a huge weight of “i hope i don’t fuck it up” involved. i die a little every time i get the drill or the Dremel out.

[Zork]

Inspired by your thread I converted my Strat last night!

I had done this several times before with different guitars. Last one was my Flying V, but I never really bonded with that guitar and also the baritone tuning didn't help. I rarely played it longer than 10 seconds and sold it off recently. I had the spare strings I bought for it lying around, though, and my Strat, which was my first guitar and which I also hadn't played in quite a long time. So, one led to the other, and now I have a baritone Strat and let me tell you: Fender style guitars are just so great for cleanish playing in low tunings! There's just something about the sonic qualities of both that makes it a match made in heaven.

My strings are .013, .017, .030, .042, .052, .068 (I like tighter strings and play .011 - .052 strings on my 24.75" scale guitars in standard tuning) and the setup went quite easily. I'd like to tighten the truss rod a little bit, but a younger version of me totally wrecked the nut somehow, so the action is a tad higher than I'd like. But it's playable and totally fine.

Let me show you a picture of a red Strat, so you know what that looks like...

[dubkitty]

i know the guy in DIIV plays Fenders. not sure about the guy in Mogwai. i couldn’t see very well from my spot in the hall. not that i see well under any circumstances…

Fender pickups, and some other singlecoils, seem to go well with piano-like resonance and sustain. humbuckers seem to get muddy comparatively. i’m curious as to how Gretsch pickups would do…the Dynasonic sound seems right up that street, and Filtertrons sound good in just about anything. i’d also like to see how the Guild Franz P-90s, which are more trebly and snappish than regular P-90s, would do. unfortunate there’s not a lot of “look how i modded my baritone!” videos out there. i’m still leaning towards WRHBs in Jazzmaster shells which seem to have the best of both worlds. people are now making a lot of pickups in Jazzmaster shells, but the fact that since i don’t have several JMs i wouldn’t have places for them in other guitars mitigates against trying everything. i don’t want to become an aftermarket pickup broker trying to flog the unsuccessful candidates. if i had the ability to put other pickups into JM shells it would be easier. i wonder how much hassle it is to configure that kind of thing.

[dubkitty]

did you adjust anything else on the Strat? i pretty well left the JM as it was regarding pickup height, action, etc. because it’s not meant to be a baritone for all that long. to be optimal it needs the bridge height and neck relief done, which maybe i’ll do later in the week.

i was both grateful and surprised that the nut wasn’t a problem.

[Zork]

I adjusted the string height, intonation and pickup height. I need to find more springs for the vibrato in my parts dungeon but also the trem arm. Like I said, teenage me destroyed the truss rod nut, unfortunately. I didn't know that anymore and can't remember I ever messed with it, but it's in terrible shape. I guess I'll need to ask a luthier for help. I haven't played the guitar in years, so I can't remember how the action was before I set it up last night.

[dubkitty]

that's tricky. if it's a truss rod with a hex socket that protrudes beyond the edge of the adjustment cavity i've had success with drilling holes into the outside of the socket and using a stiff rod or hex key to turn it. this is the only way i have to adjust the Epiphone acoustic, whose socket i destroyed back before i was 20 LOL. but Fender necks seldom do that. i would also punt to an expert at this point. it's precisely the sort of thing i don't mess with because there's a significant chance of wrecking the part. my Guild Aristocrat has a similar problem i didn't discover till after i got it home; the adjustment nut is rolled and i can't find out from anywhere whether it's a Gibson-style nut-on-a-threaded-rod or if it's intended to turn the entire rod from a hex socket. i'm going to try calling Guild Customer Service...they might be a bit more organized now that they're owned by Yamaha. there's rattles on the low strings around the 3d-5th frets that only a truss adjustment will fix.

if you're feeling daring you might try wrapping a properly-sized hex key tightly in aluminum foil or plastic wrap, filling the wrecked hole with Liquid Metal or some such metal-repair compound, and sticking the wrapped key in the goop until it dries, when theoretically you should wind up with a passable impression of a socket. i didn't try this on the Epi, though.

[Blackened Soul]

i’m curious as to how Gretsch pickups

Oh… you mean the company that made the first production 7 string?

[dubkitty]

maybe bass Filtertrons would be good. whichever variation has the blade polepiece. i used to be a Gretsch nerd and remembered all that, but i don’t know if that would be a Magnatron or a Supertron.

[Blackened Soul]

As long as you don’t use the older stock mij “bass” pickup they made with the black “blade” pole pieces.. they are dull sounding on guitar.. though the do work well in cheap hollow body basses

[dubkitty]

imma look up the frequency response for the different types of Filtertrons. a TV Jones guitar pickup would probably be fine, but i'm concerned that low string would fall off the response curve. it's a good thing i enjoy doing research.

[dubkitty]

but i prefer it when i can find comprehensible information. as far as i can tell, garden-variety Filtertrons appear to have a flat response from 100 Hz or so up to 900 Hz where the pickup starts boosting signal. that seems to go along with how well the CVJM pickups do on the way low end. there's a fine line between thinking about everything you do and overthinking everything you do. it sometimes feels like i'm chasing a cloud, but i'm trying to work everything possible out before i get to the buying-stuff phase. the more guitar stuff i work on, the more complicated it becomes so i'm trying to avoid complications as much as possible. i could probably stop looking at pickups so much because the CuNiFe (boy, is that a pain in the ass to type. thanks, Fender!) WRHBs in JM shells looks like a near-perfect solution. with those pickups and the G&L tone circuit i should be able to get loads of useable baritone sounds.

[dubkitty]

i’m curious as to how Gretsch pickups

Oh… you mean the company that made the first production 7 string?

take THAT, Charlie Hunter!

[Zork]

but i prefer it when i can find comprehensible information. as far as i can tell, garden-variety Filtertrons appear to have a flat response from 100 Hz or so up to 900 Hz where the pickup starts boosting signal. that seems to go along with how well the CVJM pickups do on the way low end. there's a fine line between thinking about everything you do and overthinking everything you do. it sometimes feels like i'm chasing a cloud, but i'm trying to work everything possible out before i get to the buying-stuff phase. the more guitar stuff i work on, the more complicated it becomes so i'm trying to avoid complications as much as possible. i could probably stop looking at pickups so much because the CuNiFe (boy, is that a pain in the ass to type. thanks, Fender!) WRHBs in JM shells looks like a near-perfect solution. with those pickups and the G&L tone circuit i should be able to get loads of useable baritone sounds.

Overthinking can make a project much too complicated. I personally would step back a bit and go slowly step by step. First find strings that work well with your desired tuning and playing style. Then play it a lot and see what's missing or needs to be changed. Maybe the tone circuit is next, because it's easy to do. Or the neck because it has the most profound effect on the timbre of the guitar. Then go from there. Sometimes in a project like that, a lot of thought goes into "solutions looking for a problem". Maybe the stock pickups handle the frequencies perfectly fine? Squier put them in their 30" baritone Jazzmaster, the most expensive Squier ever on the used market...

[dubkitty]

they'll certainly do for a start, and i'm pretty sure the CuNiFe WRHBs in JM shells is optimal. i'm just trying to consider as many options as i can stand before the ball drops and the spending starts. i particularly hate it when a project gets stalled partway in because some important part is unavailable and i have to scour the earth trying to find one or cobble up a replacement. it took forever to find everything for the Hopf.

i'll start by getting the neck and ancillary bits; that will give me a JM with the long neck to play on when i put it together. i could do the tone circuit modification then, which would also let me pull and save the existing rhythm circuit. the second phase will be recreating a "regular" JM by putting the leftover neck on a loaded body. last would be modifying them by moving stuff around e.g. the American Pro II trem that's currently on the red body will go on the new one. i'll see if the Squier trem is useable and go from there with that.

then there'll be a period of try this/try that/what kinds of knobs/etc. the regular JM will use the accessories (PU covers, knobs, etc.) currently on the red body because that's what i want a JM to look/feel like. depending on how it goes together and how it feels i could go in a different direction accessorizing the baritone. i just don't know, and can't know until i'm actually sticking screws in things. the part that's going to be a leap of faith is speccing the neck. i'm used to picking up a guitar and accepting the neck.