Controls for an envelope filter?

[smallsnd/bigsnd]

i probably already know the answer to this for most of you duders, but if you were to purchase an envelope-controlled filter what would be the necessary controls on there and what would be unnecessary? i'm talking only about the actual envelope control section, not the filter itself or anything else... this is all of the controls i would consider putting on, but i'm wondering if any of these wouldn't really get any use because it would be nice to simplify a bit.

sensitivity - how much your dynamics affect the envelope
attack - attack time
decay - decay time
intensity - how much the envelope affects the filter
up/down switch - selects between up or down sweep

[coldbrightsunlight]

When I've used envelope filters before I've definitely appreciated all of those controls, even if some of them are just on a 2-way switch (fast/slow attack or decay for example). I'd say the least useful for me would be decay time though. And I only care about attack time if it goes rreeeaaally slow, otherwise meh.

[MSUsousaphone]

And, not sure if this is even in the ball park of what you're asking, but what the hey, the more things controllable with an expression pedal, the better. I LOVE controlling the sweep of filters manually.

[jmoote]

Yeah I am all for manual expression pedal control of the cutoff on the filter.

When you say "intensity - how much the envelope affects the filter" what exactly does this mean? What is the filter doing when you have this turned down (sitting at the cutoff frequency selected by that control perhaps?)

I am just not used to seeing both that kind of control and a sensitivity control since you can basically achieve the same thing by turning the sensitivity down, but I can see some creative possibilities of low sens high intensity perhaps.

Separate attack and decay controls are good. Full ADSR envelope would be awesome. I don't know how available parts are I would love to see that as 4 mini sliders. If the components available mean you end up with more than 4 they could certainly be used for cutoff, sensitivity, etc. Knobs for all of the above are fine of course.

[coldbrightsunlight]

And, not sure if this is even in the ball park of what you're asking, but what the hey, the more things controllable with an expression pedal, the better. I LOVE controlling the sweep of filters manually.

Also this, love expression control.

BUT I also like simple things that just sound really good, so I'd also be down with that.

[smallsnd/bigsnd]

Yeah I am all for manual expression pedal control of the cutoff on the filter.

When you say "intensity - how much the envelope affects the filter" what exactly does this mean? What is the filter doing when you have this turned down (sitting at the cutoff frequency selected by that control perhaps?)

I am just not used to seeing both that kind of control and a sensitivity control since you can basically achieve the same thing by turning the sensitivity down, but I can see some creative possibilities of low sens high intensity perhaps.

Separate attack and decay controls are good. Full ADSR envelope would be awesome. I don't know how available parts are I would love to see that as 4 mini sliders. If the components available mean you end up with more than 4 they could certainly be used for cutoff, sensitivity, etc. Knobs for all of the above are fine of course.

intensity would be like a depth control for how much the envelope affects the filter wah wah/wub wub. sensitivity would allow you to tailor how much your dynamics affect the envelope control, say if you're using a passive bass then switch to active then switch to a guitar with a fuzz, etc. the filter would be static or controlled by something else which is unnamed at this point

full adsr is cool in theory but i think it needlessly complex for guitar/bass purposes. i'm on the fence with even the attack/decay controls so no way am i going to add a full adsr! sliders are way cool so i'll look into them... no promises there though since there are a bunch of issues inherent with them in general.

When I've used envelope filters before I've definitely appreciated all of those controls, even if some of them are just on a 2-way switch (fast/slow attack or decay for example). I'd say the least useful for me would be decay time though. And I only care about attack time if it goes rreeeaaally slow, otherwise meh.

cool. oh yeah i'm with you on the attack control - i'm way more about making the controls have a wide/extreme range rather than subtle dialing-in-of-toanz since there are already plenty of envelope filters that already do that quite well.

these are the kinds of responses i was hoping for!

[jmoote]

Yeah I am all for manual expression pedal control of the cutoff on the filter.

When you say "intensity - how much the envelope affects the filter" what exactly does this mean? What is the filter doing when you have this turned down (sitting at the cutoff frequency selected by that control perhaps?)

I am just not used to seeing both that kind of control and a sensitivity control since you can basically achieve the same thing by turning the sensitivity down, but I can see some creative possibilities of low sens high intensity perhaps.

Separate attack and decay controls are good. Full ADSR envelope would be awesome. I don't know how available parts are I would love to see that as 4 mini sliders. If the components available mean you end up with more than 4 they could certainly be used for cutoff, sensitivity, etc. Knobs for all of the above are fine of course.

intensity would be like a depth control for how much the envelope affects the filter wah wah/wub wub. sensitivity would allow you to tailor how much your dynamics affect the envelope control, say if you're using a passive bass then switch to active then switch to a guitar with a fuzz, etc. the filter would be static or controlled by something else which is unnamed at this point

full adsr is cool in theory but i think it needlessly complex for guitar/bass purposes. i'm on the fence with even the attack/decay controls so no way am i going to add a full adsr! sliders are way cool so i'll look into them... no promises there though since there are a bunch of issues inherent with them in general.

Got it. I understand your explanation of the sensitivity/intensity thing, I guess. Again I am used to bigger envelope (either due to stronger attack or higher sensitivity settings) equalling greater sweep. I think I get what you are trying to do differently using one to adjust the envelope to the incoming signal and the other for the effect you want so you only have to adjust sensitivity for a different input and leave the rest the same to get the same effect.

I actually think I agree about the full ADSR for guitar/bass being overkill, but it's something that nothing else out there is really offering (for good reason, maybe). In that case I am definitely in favour of control over attack and decay times, and besides that I think you're good.

Sliders are a luxury but not really needed and not worth complicating or compromising your design.

[coldbrightsunlight]

When I've used envelope filters before I've definitely appreciated all of those controls, even if some of them are just on a 2-way switch (fast/slow attack or decay for example). I'd say the least useful for me would be decay time though. And I only care about attack time if it goes rreeeaaally slow, otherwise meh.

cool. oh yeah i'm with you on the attack control - i'm way more about making the controls have a wide/extreme range rather than subtle dialing-in-of-toanz since there are already plenty of envelope filters that already do that quite well.

Yeah, I figured you would do interesting shit. When I said simple before I meant in terms of number of controls, not the range of crazy sounds!

[John]

BLEND BLEND BLEND BLEND MUTHAFUKKIN BLEND. So many otherwise dope effects are unblendable (I'm lookin' at you, Q-Tron Plus...)

[JuJo]

I dunno if this is in the range of standard envelope filter controls, but I have one that has a resonance knob (adjusts the resonance at the cutoff frequency) and it's the coolest thing ever

[smallsnd/bigsnd]

yeah, that will be on there.

the basic controls at this point will be a gain control, cutoff frequency, resonance, blend and volume.
the rest is for the envelope control and is what i'm not totally sure on yet. there are a bunch of other neat control things that i'm thinking about as well... i want to just start here though.

[John]

Exp pedal jack for EVERYTHING

[backwardsvoyager]

The more knobs the better IMO. If things like decay time aren't useful for some people they can always just set and forget, otherwise it just opens up a whole new array of sounds that you wouldn't find on a lot of other filters and you'd likely have more people wanting to buy one.
+1 on expression control of as many things as possible, and clean blend.

[univalve]

A fixed Filter Setting would be nice too.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Yeah, fixed filter is sweet. I guess exp controllable sweep would allow you do that anyway but then some people don't have those...