JHS = Bullshit?

[D.o.S.]

Oh for sure it is, and I hate to bust this out, but this is goddamn America. And we're dealing with the bullshit where we've got this institutionalized homophobia and other issues due to the influence of extreme sects of Christianity using religion as an excuse for this hatred. It's not that far off from the extremists we're taught to hate and fear the world over. I'm not excusing the other religious sects but we need to look in a goddamn mirror sometime.

The only issue is you can't single the Christians out as the only guilty religion, which has been the focus of our liberal mainstream media,otherwise your guilty of singling people out for discrimination by doing the same thing to them. Especially when their punishment and views on homosexuality is no where near as bad as say the Muslim beliefs. The Christians believe that you go to hell when you die for it, Muslims believe you should be killed on site for it. Why do we punish those who speak loudly, and welcome those who act loudly.

*edit* I just reread your post and you weren't talking about singling them out... derp...

Problem: False-equivocation bullshit is just that, bullshit.

If you're part of the majority, even by virtue of being the biggest minority, you don't get to sue for discrimination. The idea that Christianity is discriminated against in the media (esp. that "liberal mainstream media") is laughable and wrong.

edit: I will say that this conversation is way more interesting than talking about JHS pedals, which are unexciting and lame.

[pelliott]

My point is while what other countries and religions the world over are doing is bad and wrong, it doesn't make what the crazy lobbies in our country any less bad and wrong. When institutionalized homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, xenophobia, what have you, lead to violence and emotional abuse that often leads into self-harm (particularly in LGBT populations) we shouldn't act so high and mighty.

[D.o.S.]

But what do we know, we're just a couple of haughty New England elitists.

[pelliott]

UVM made me hateful and judgmental

[D.o.S.]

UVM made me dabes

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUyyHYkBHk[/youtube]

[Joe Gress]

swag

[AngryGoldfish]

Problem: False-equivocation bullshit is just that, bullshit.

If you're part of the majority, even by virtue of being the biggest minority, you don't get to sue for discrimination. The idea that Christianity is discriminated against in the media (esp. that "liberal mainstream media") is laughable and wrong.

edit: I will say that this conversation is way more interesting than talking about JHS pedals, which are unexciting and lame.

Maybe not in the media but certainly within the current generation of young people. Christianity, unless you're already within the circle jerk and do not associate outside of it, is a very unpopular religion and does not give you brownie points amongst your peers like being a Buddhist can, though you are immediately considered a hipster if you are a Buddhist, another discrimination. It's almost cool to be a Jew or Muslim. Almost. In groups of college students all studying one involving subject, unified on that same path, if there is a Buddhist amongst them they generally are more open about it than a Christian would be. You'll obviously face prejudice from bigots who assume all Muslims are terrorists or communists or whatever ignorance is being preached at the time, but you won't face the same kind of bullying and disregard that Christians receive, even if you're one of the few that don't actually protest against homosexual rights, don't vote for nutters who believe children with Down Syndrome should be euthanized before birth in order to save tax payers money, and don't picket at the funerals of war veterans. Christians are often considered the lowest denominator, like they're the chewing gum that sticks to your shoes in classrooms. Muslims face much harsher criticism and hate, but Christians face a different kind of discrimination.

Here's the real kicker: he's not just a Christian, he's a member of a fairly insane sect/cult. He is a member of the International House of Prayer (IHOP). They are a fairly huge presence in Independence/Grandview Missouri. They have a lot of fringe beliefs, recruit meth addicts, and engage in shady behavior. It's not like he's a Methodist. IHOP is into some dark shit.
http://www.charismanews.com/us/34625-ih ... ent-murder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-bes ... 61510.html
http://www.reddirtreport.com/red-dirt-g ... p-offshoot

This reminds of True Detective. Maybe JHS inspired the writers?

[cedarskies]

UVM made me dabes

[youtube][/youtube]

I was really confused about what the hell happened to this thread but now it all makes sense.

Thank you.

[D.o.S.]

Problem: False-equivocation bullshit is just that, bullshit.

If you're part of the majority, even by virtue of being the biggest minority, you don't get to sue for discrimination. The idea that Christianity is discriminated against in the media (esp. that "liberal mainstream media") is laughable and wrong.

edit: I will say that this conversation is way more interesting than talking about JHS pedals, which are unexciting and lame.

Maybe not in the media but certainly within the current generation of young people. Christianity, unless you're already within the circle jerk and do not associate outside of it, is a very unpopular religion and does not give you brownie points amongst your peers like being a Buddhist can, though you are immediately considered a hipster if you are a Buddhist, another discrimination. It's almost cool to be a Jew or Muslim. Almost. In groups of college students all studying one involving subject, unified on that same path, if there is a Buddhist amongst them they generally are more open about it than a Christian would be. You'll obviously face prejudice from bigots who assume all Muslims are terrorists or communists or whatever ignorance is being preached at the time, but you won't face the same kind of bullying and disregard that Christians receive, even if you're one of the few that don't actually protest against homosexual rights, don't vote for nutters who believe children with Down Syndrome should be euthanized before birth in order to save tax payers money, and don't picket at the funerals of war veterans. Christians are often considered the lowest denominator, like they're the chewing gum that sticks to your shoes in classrooms. Muslims face much harsher criticism and hate, but Christians face a different kind of discrimination.

That's, uh, a very sweeping generalization about the "current generation of young people."

Anyway, I'll say that in the US, Christianity as a social organization is now, for the first time, being treated largely the same way it's responded to other religious beliefs throughout human history. While it seems like everyone my parents' age just sort of filled out "C of E" when asked for a religious affiliation, regardless of any real zeal or belief, that's no longer the case because the social norm is no longer 'being Christian'. They're not stoked about that -- obviously -- but it doesn't make them an oppressed minority. Not by a long shot.

[Ancient Astronaught]

Problem: False-equivocation bullshit is just that, bullshit.

If you're part of the majority, even by virtue of being the biggest minority, you don't get to sue for discrimination. The idea that Christianity is discriminated against in the media (esp. that "liberal mainstream media") is laughable and wrong.

edit: I will say that this conversation is way more interesting than talking about JHS pedals, which are unexciting and lame.

See but to me that is also part of the problem, discrimination by default should have no bounds. There should be no person that can't be discriminated against, otherwise you destroy the validity of the system, at the same time no person should be discriminated against.

I don't know about your neck of the woods but because I'm right outside of DC our news is very politico-centered, maybe out news stations present things differently but here they very clear associate Christian's and their values with Republican's and their values. They constantly connect the two unnecessarily to try and make it very well known that they go hand in hand and that if you support the ideaology and agenda pushed by the liberal owned news stations then you should, like them, be against Christians and Republicans as one and the same; a "potential terrorist threat".

They've even gone as far as to label the founding fathers as "domestic terrorists" and denounced them for what they did to the point that they won't even teach kids about the Boston Tea Party in school anymore as its considered as bad if not worse than 9/11.

What. The. Fuck.

My point is while what other countries and religions the world over are doing is bad and wrong, it doesn't make what the crazy lobbies in our country any less bad and wrong. When institutionalized homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, xenophobia, what have you, lead to violence and emotional abuse that often leads into self-harm (particularly in LGBT populations) we shouldn't act so high and mighty.

I agree whole heartedly! I feel that no form of discrimination at all should be allowed or tolerated. But getting millions of people to stop believing in what they've been brainwashed to believe their entire life is not an easy feat by any means, especially when it crosses over so many races and religions which refuse to denounce what is written into their books of ideaology.

[AngryGoldfish]

That's, uh, a very sweeping generalization about the "current generation of young people."

Anyway, I'll say that in the US, Christianity as a social organization is now, for the first time, being treated largely the same way it's responded to other religious beliefs throughout human history. While it seems like everyone my parents' age just sort of filled out "C of E" when asked for a religious affiliation, regardless of any real zeal or belief, that's no longer the case because the social norm is no longer 'being Christian'. They're not stoked about that -- obviously -- but it doesn't make them an oppressed minority. Not by a long shot.

Oh yeah, of course it's a sweeping generalization. Most of the conversations we're having are generalizations. They're more fun!

An oppressed minority is not really what I mean. You can still discriminate against a majority. And I wouldn't say oppressed is the word either. I'm not trying to be pedantic and disagreeable, I just want to make sure I get my point across because I'm not always the best at that. I would use the words 'embarrassed', 'shamed', 'disinterested'. People I meet who are still not clinging to their history generally look at Christians almost as a worldwide organization of comedians and fools. They are the butt of every joke and no one takes them seriously. And when they do, everyone almost always takes the other person's side.

Of course, this is mitigating the fact that there are many different variations of Christianity and many different ways self-acclaimed Christians disperse their beliefs to others.

[Chankgeez]

While it seems like everyone my parents' age just sort of filled out "C of E" when asked for a religious affiliation...

You left a couple letters out of the word "coffee" there.

Coffee, that's my religious affiliation.

[D.o.S.]

That's, uh, a very sweeping generalization about the "current generation of young people."

Anyway, I'll say that in the US, Christianity as a social organization is now, for the first time, being treated largely the same way it's responded to other religious beliefs throughout human history. While it seems like everyone my parents' age just sort of filled out "C of E" when asked for a religious affiliation, regardless of any real zeal or belief, that's no longer the case because the social norm is no longer 'being Christian'. They're not stoked about that -- obviously -- but it doesn't make them an oppressed minority. Not by a long shot.

Oh yeah, of course it's a sweeping generalization. Most of the conversations we're having are generalizations. They're more fun!

An oppressed minority is not really what I mean. You can still discriminate against a majority. And I wouldn't say oppressed is the word either. I'm not trying to be pedantic and disagreeable, I just want to make sure I get my point across because I'm not always the best at that. I would use the words 'embarrassed', 'shamed', 'disinterested'. People I meet who are still not clinging to their history generally look at Christians almost as a worldwide organization of comedians and fools. They are the butt of every joke and no one takes them seriously. And when they do, everyone almost always takes the other person's side.

Of course, this is mitigating the fact that there are many different variations of Christianity and many different ways self-acclaimed Christians disperse their beliefs to others.

I think in general religousness is more openly disdained than it has been in the past, but I also think that Christian's definitely view themselves as an opressed minority -- in the US, at least:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara ... ious-group

http://christianpersecutioninamerica.co ... n-america/
That second link...

While it seems like everyone my parents' age just sort of filled out "C of E" when asked for a religious affiliation...

You left a couple letters out of the word "coffee" there.

Coffee, that's my religious affiliation.

you too?

[AngryGoldfish]

Well, that's just silly. Christianity is still well ahead of any other religion and the world's powers are mostly Christian, if religious at all. To claim you're an oppressed minority is silly. The fact is, despite what I said about the laughable practises of many Christians today, they still have enormous amounts of power and persuasion.

[Doctor X]

this persecuted minority thing is quite interesting, i dont know if its always been a theme since the 1960s or so and the social revolutions that occurred in 'the west', but it certainly seems to be getting stronger and shriller in the propaganda in recent years.
i can see that with the rise of this oppressive and militant fundamentalist islam in countries with sharia law (or close to it) that there is no doubt christians are persecuted in those places - hey, im an athiest, now you know what its been like for us all these centuries!
but i do find it bizarre to claim to be a persecuted minority in the usa when it seems like every single politician, news reader, media person, etc claims to be a christian or 'person of faith' and are always going on about 'prayers'.
whenever there is some kind of natural disaster they say 'we are praying for them'.
is that how god works? he makes a tsunami, kills loads of people, then all the rest have to have other people 'pray' for them to survive?
or someone goes missing and we have to pray for them to be found safe?
is that how it works? a little child goes missing, and if you dont pray then you dont get them back? so god is sitting there, waiting for you to pray, if you you dont pray enough little johnny is found dead?

anyway, whatever .... this persecuted minority thing just seems to be saying 'you wont let us be bigots anymore', hey dont worry, you can still be a bigot if you want to, but we are all in this together, so you are going to have to learn to accept other people a bit better and not impose yourself upon them