HELP ME FIX MY WORKFLOW (or maybe just pick a new synth)

[01010111]

I really want to get a weird synth. Normally when I’m thinking about new gear, I try to think about ways to either simplify my current setup or add functionality. This usually means making it either easier or more fun to use. New gear has had to follow four main rules:

1- is it fun
2- does it play well with what I’ve got
3- does it pass the “drunk test” (i.e. can I easily use it after having a few adult beverages, or if I’m really tired at the end of the day)
4- how easy would it be to recreate performances live?

So-called “experimental” synths normally only pass the first of those rules, but I find myself really drawn to four different synths. I want to try using something that forces me to change my workflow, and gives me access to sounds I can’t make currently. I want something to play that’s emotionally satisfying. A lot of times with synths I basically get the same intellectual and emotional satisfaction I get from solving a sudoku; except with more bleeps and bloops.

Also, I really enjoy the physical performative aspect of music, and many times using synths strips that away. For example, watching someone play a piano live is much more interesting visually than watching someone play an elektron box live. So, picking an instrument that would be interesting to play is appealing.

I also don’t want to go 100% modular or start using a DAW. Digital audio workstations don’t pass any of my rules, and would require learning how to use one from scratch (as well as purchase the appropriate i/o for my computer). But they would allow me to try weird ideas that are difficult/impossible/prohibitively expensive in hardware, so, that could be worth it.

Right now I’m looking at these synths:

Lyra-8: this one’s exciting because of how often I hear reviewers describe the experience of using it as being immensely satisfying. The results all sound very similar to me, though. I feel like the sounds can be approximated using a good fuzz pedal, delay with square wave modulation, and your instrument of choice. It also does not seem like it would play well with other instruments. For instance, if I wanted to try and arrange a piece with this, another synthesizer, and a drum machine, I think I would have a very hard time getting everything in tune and in sync with each other. If I wanted to make dark, atonal synth music, though. That would be a great setup (like a tamer version of 80’s era Scott Walker). I struggle imagining anyone having fun watching someone play one of these live, though. The movements are slow and minute in size, and visually what you do doesn’t necessarily translate into the scale of the change in sound.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8od1a1mySU


Solar 50: this one’s exciting because of how massive it sounds. Hearing all those oscillators bump and grind against each other in that massive sound feels cathartic. The potential performance element of this one seems good too. I think it would be easy to get stuck in a sort of rut with this one, though. The process of tuning each oscillator looks extremely tedious, and I could see that being both really fun and really awful depending on my mood. So, I could see myself tuning everything into triads of a C minor scale and never tuning it again. It does fair well on the performance aspect, though. The contact mic and photosensitive modulation makes for interesting options when it comes to performing with it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtYa9vdiBMA


Hydrasynth: this one feels the most practical, but it also scores really poorly on the criteria I’m looking for. The sheer tonal possibilities with this one are immense. It looks like a digital version of a polyphonic modular synth. The downside is it seems like it would be as difficult to program as the Solar 50, but infinitely less intuitive. The enormous pro here is its ability to recall saved patches. So, once I spend the time programming it, I wouldn’t have to worry about being stuck with that one sound. The other downside is this one would also reinforce my current workflow. It would be extremely easy to keep my setup unchanged and just substitute this synth in place of whatever poly synth I’m using currently. The performance aspect of this one seems okay as long as it’s not mainly being sequenced by another piece of gear. The macro knobs would also be good for dramatic sweeping changes, but I think it might be boring for anyone watching.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gfuTU1hdMV4


Pulsar-23: this thing is appealing because of its sound, its ability to connect to other hardware, the flexibility of its interface, and the ability to make beats with unusual timing. I could approximate many of its sounds using the Syntakt, but the ease with which you can enter unusual timings on the Pulsar-23 is intriguing. It would also be easier to integrate this with my existing setup. One of the downsides is its cost. For what it costs, I feel like I could build a slick drum-focused modular rack. The performance aspect of this is better than some elektron boxes. But unless you’re doing some unusual things, it’s going to be boring to watch:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbGVAnpj2O ... JhMjlhZTc=


Another option I’ve considered is building/purchasing different controllers for my current setup. This is something I find really intriguing, but it might be easier to accomplish this with the help of a DAW. Getting some of these motion controllers and a midi foot controller would go a long way towards a setup that would be interesting to watch someone play:

https://instrumentsofthings.com/products/2-4sink-set


What do you folks think? If you have experience with any of these boxes, I’d be interested in hearing about your experience with that box. Also, there’s a fair chance I’m thinking too hard about making beep boops, and I should just grab my guitar and find people to play with.

[D.o.S.]

Since no one's replied directly I've talked to a few people about the Lyra 8 - there's a freeware interpretation that you can use with a DAW (whilst you're anti DAW, you're probably not Anti-free)
https://mikemorenodsp.gumroad.com/l/lira-8

I'm assuming you don't want to go down the sampler route, but you can do a lot of fun performative stuff with samplers (especially the more powerful ones) that shortcuts a lot of the downsides from playing one of these in performance. Of course, it's not as 'plug and play' since you have to know what you want to sample. But I think unless you're going full EBM you'll wind up with dude at desk.

Now having said that, the Solar 50 looks super fun!

[crochambeau]

Just to be clear, I'm going to be prioritizing line 4 of your criteria list, as that is an operator of my own set of rules (though samplers pave that path for the really weird, acoustic, or otherwise difficult things).

Could MIDI controllers open up what you already have? Being able to automate/pre-record parameter movements that will sculpt sound on one thread while you play against/with it on another is a powerful aspect I personally lean toward with respect to electronic instruments.

Requires a sequencer, a control input(s), and a synth that is responsive to cc or sysex commands that you are able to produce and capture/playback with the aforementioned instruments.

So, my criteria is almost completely guided by MIDI cc compatibility, which shunts the Solar 50 right out the window.

Lyra 8 appears to have limited CV connectivity, so it would be possible to pre-build some framework that you can then climb around in, but I have no first hand experience with how involved a build you can fabricate with that, or how demanding the instrument is in the context of a live pass.

Pulsar 23 looks to take MIDI, so in terms or rhythmic aspects, I would assume you can either lock step whatever pattern you've got on board or simply remote trigger drum voices from an external instrument/sequencer. I would guess that MIDI reach ends there, and you're on your own with respect to what sounds have been constructed (nod back to samplers).

Hydrasynth would scratch more of my own itches than anything else you've mentioned (excepting the controllers), as it appears to have a well rounded MIDI cc spec, and being able to pull up new sounds on demand is a big deal. That said, I'm just looking at specs on this and have no first hand experience. I know I have some synths that you can hold a note and run through patch changes and it will produce a delightful and rhythmic blast of sounds, while other synths take a moment to sort themselves before going live, making that sort of thing impossible. MIDI cc side steps this, of course, but one must bear in mind that the MIDI channel is a relatively narrow pipe that can only manage so much information, and it can get easy to glut a sequencer or overwhelm a synth with information.

Which brings me around to MIDI controllers. I really think that, if you have not yet cracked this egg open it's worth checking out. A decent controller can be used with a vast array on instruments as well.

All of those instruments look super cool; so if it seems I was speaking disparagingly on anything, it's only because I was holding fairly tight criteria in mind, criteria that may very well not apply to you at all..

[01010111]

These are some good points. I just realized I said “help me change my workflow, but no DAW, no samplers, and no modular”. With all those limitations, I’m sort of stuck back where I started. I think I’m willing to be flexible with modular and sampling. Modular is something I’ve avoided because of the obvious money pit.

Sampling is something I’ve avoided because in the past I hated managing a sample library, but I really enjoyed mangling samples into something new. I liked the sample workflow on the OP-Z, but I hated the lack of screen and having to remember button combos for everything. The Volca Sample was a ton of fun, but loading samples via the app was really annoying and the midi implementation drove me nuts. Outside of the Elektron and MPC devices, are there samplers that are fun to use that have an internal sequencer? Should I give those brands a second chance? The SP series looks interesting, but they seem to be focused on sample playback as opposed to mangling samples?

Of the synths I originally listed, the Solar 50 and Hydrasynth line up the most with what I initially expressed interest in. But I think what I’m actually most interested in is interacting with my setup in a different way. So, going for non-traditional midi/cv controllers seems like the right idea. Those motion controllers I linked earlier look cool, and I think they could go a long way towards making a setup that’s more performative. I’ll look into putting together a small modular that’s focused on interpreting non-traditional inputs into usable cv/midi signals. A lot of my stuff speaks in both cv and midi. So, it should hopefully be possible to start experimenting with this stuff by just purchasing that midi motion controller and a eurorack case. Hopefully keeping that modular goal relatively simple will help me avoid the endless money pit of modular?

I’ll be moving internationally sometime in the next year (I unfortunately don’t know when or where). So, what I’ll probably do in the meantime is sell some stuff to clean house, and maybe purchase the hydrasynth explorer. After I figure out which country I’m going to be in, I’ll start putting together my modular. That’ll give me time to research what’s available, test stuff using vcv rack, and thoroughly plan out how I want to do this. If I remember right, midi foot controllers are normally pretty limited and I would like to be able to transpose and send specific CC signals using a midi controller. So, I might see if I can make what I need using a raspberry pi and a breadboard. A lot of the midi foot controllers look like they’re geared towards triggering changes in presets, but I need something that can send note signals, has two or three buttons set to specific midi cc values, and sends start/stop clock signals.

[coupleonapkins]

Also, there’s a fair chance I’m thinking too hard about making beep boops, and I should just grab my guitar and find people to play with.

You don't need too much (complicated?) gear to have an uncomplicated time but I salute you for trying



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NdGrSLhThQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUyjNcauweQ

[SimplyTH]

Just out of curiosity what gear do you have now that fits those four criteria?

[01010111]

There’s more talent in this image than I’ve ever had in my entire life. I love Dan Deacon.

Just out of curiosity what gear do you have now that fits those four criteria?

The short answer is not all of it does fit all the criteria. The best examples that fit all four are probably the Beatstep Pro, SE-02, Minilogue, Volca FM, Volca Beats, the RD-8, and my Jazzmaster. They’re super fun and simple to use, they’re easy to sync to each other, and all of these allow me to save presets (outside of the Jazzmaster). Sure, I do have to keep track of what presets go with which song, and I have a notebook to help keep track of that. The most complicated of those is the Volca FM. But if you’re just using presets and not trying to do detailed fm programming, it’s wonderful. Most of my effects pedals meet the criteria, the only one that doesn’t is the Zoia.

Everything else in my setup is either too useful to get rid of (like the Zoia), or it sounds really, really nice.

[oldangelmidnight]

[quote="01010111"Outside of the Elektron and MPC devices, are there samplers that are fun to use that have an internal sequencer? [/quote]
The Novation Circuit Rhythm is that but I don't think it could be played drunk until you have a lot of experience with it.